Alright gurus,

Looking for words of wisdom:

Thinking about building a 2door Blazer.

Pros:
100" Wheel Base
Availability of parts
K.I.S.S Keep it Simple Stupid
Price of Parts
Availability of Aftermarket Springs, Shocks, Gears, etc.
Cheap Power



Cons:
3,800 lbs
Center of Gravity


What are your thoughts?

---

Owner, Driver, Head Mechanic, and Janitor at Tower City Race Team, headquartered near L'Anse. Michigan.
Driver / CoDriver in Rally America, NASARallySport, ARA, AMS, UPMDA, Champ Off Road

https://www.facebook.com/TowerCityRaceTeam/
https://www.instagram.com/towercityraceteam/

The weight and CoG will kill you. One decent Blazer was out there years ago, by Ken Stewart in OK, and it was supercharged. I asked him about and as I recall, the handling was pretty bad. (And Ken built and rallied an AMC Pacer once so he knew what he was saying!)

I agree on the parts and such, but be realistic about the handling wiht a live rear axle with common aftermarket shocks and such. I would steer you towards a S-10 extended cab PU chassis instead since you are a Chevy guy. A very good person to confer with is Sean down in the SE who is on SpecialStage forums as 'Angryiron'. He completed his Ranger extended cab 2Wd PU last year, did a fine job on the cage and on the whole set-up. I saw him running late in Sandbalst this year and his PU was doing as good as any 2WD car over small yump that was upsetting a lot of cars. He has done some other projects before and seemed to hit a good combination with a 4 cylinder engine.

Also, cage installs in PU's and SUV's are going to take extra work, to get the frame, which is inset from the body sides a good ways, tied into the cab and cage properly. Sean did a good job, and I think we came up with a good pacakge for him. Since you are up in the MW, you'll probably be doing RA events more than anything, so better to see what Sean did, and then take it to Mike Hurst of RA for consultation. (I except he is realistic but I can't speak for how flexible he can be with RA rules versus my options under NRS rules.) The extended cab makes the cage work so much better than standard cab.

How does a 4 cylinder or V6 sound to you? Helps fight weight.

Mark B.

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Dante
Alright gurus,

Looking for words of wisdom:

Thinking about building a 2door Blazer.

Pros:
100" Wheel Base Good
Availability of parts ..............Good
K.I.S.S Keep it Simple Stupid .....Good
Price of Parts......................Yeah but what parts?
Availability of Aftermarket Springs, Shocks, Gears, etc. ...No different from any number of sedans with only minimal effort.
Cheap Power.............well OK, but how about grip???



Cons:
3,800 lbs...........negating any power advantage, overtaxing brakes, bending inadequate suspension, bending junk body on frame set up
Center of Gravity.....negating the usefulness of the vehicle in any use that might require turning and or drive on uneven surface.


What are your thoughts?

A pointless exercise in futility. A puzzling voluntary torpedoing of any chance ever of decent results in the end solely for the novelty of what is imagined to be "unique".

Have you never noticed that even in ordinary road use vehicles like that routinely flip over when driven on normal smooth asphalt roads at very moderate speeds?

Do you want to never experience the joy of driving a well balanced, good handling vehicle?

Here's the build on the Ranger. Looked well done at tech at Sandblast. DNF'd with
plugged fuel line. Runs the V6.
JT
Angryiron

Thanks!

I appreciate the candid responses.

I value everyone's years of experience...BUT..

There's gotta be a REASON Baja Bill, Jim Cox, Mike, Mark, and Jim Morris drive/drove such ill handling, power hungry, American pieces of crap...right?

Oh, and they have the biggest smiles and best personalities of rally folk.


Not trying to be stubborn..just thinking out loud.

---

Owner, Driver, Head Mechanic, and Janitor at Tower City Race Team, headquartered near L'Anse. Michigan.
Driver / CoDriver in Rally America, NASARallySport, ARA, AMS, UPMDA, Champ Off Road

https://www.facebook.com/TowerCityRaceTeam/
https://www.instagram.com/towercityraceteam/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2011 06:16PM by Dante.

This is what I thinking of as a base.

---

Owner, Driver, Head Mechanic, and Janitor at Tower City Race Team, headquartered near L'Anse. Michigan.
Driver / CoDriver in Rally America, NASARallySport, ARA, AMS, UPMDA, Champ Off Road

https://www.facebook.com/TowerCityRaceTeam/
https://www.instagram.com/towercityraceteam/

Quote
Dante
Thanks!

I appreciate the candid responses.

I value everyone's years of experience...BUT..

There's gotta be a REASON Baja Bill, Jim Cox, Mike, Mark, and Jim Morris drive/drove such ill handling, power hungry, American pieces of crap...right?

Oh, and they have the biggest smiles and best personalities of rally folk.


Not trying to be stubborn..just thinking out loud.

Bill Holmes has long standing sponsorship connections for off-road Baja type racing, that's a good reason.
The others may have their own reasons, but overall competitiveness certainly can't be very high on the list.
There are those who spout how great trucks are/were but some of those guys doing trucks on the National series were caught on stages in as little as 4-5 miles by locals here in the PNW on more than one occasion.

Generally smart guys, the guys who stay in this sport, eventually begin to think about the actual advantages one vehicle brings to the equation.
A basically GOOD car, and one with no built in limitations with room to progressively upgrade to better and better spec is one way to stay in the sport. in other words: fun out of the box but can be made even better as you stay with it for some time.

Fun out of the box means "pretty good" balance----which a truck never will have---"pretty good" power, steering, brakes, cheap gearing and good suspension travel...and replacement parts for "battle damage" find-able.

These "pretty good" qualities combined with progressive upgradability is precisely why i push Xratties, and 240s, especially Volvos (built 1975 thru 1992, no shortage of fenders, grilles, hoods, windscreens, doors) especially as turbo cars. And to a slightly lesser extent 240 Nissans.

The 2300s in Xratties and Volvos with a ordianry sized turbo make enough bhp and more than enough torque for anybody to make good results with, add slightly shorter gearing and its only better. The 2400 in the nissan ain't too shabby either.

These nice motors, nothing special but critically "pretty good" means a guy can expend limited funds on suspension, brakes and events....


Any vehicle which has a glaring "piss poor" or "bad' should be off the list.

In the world of a lot of bad cars, "pretty good' is a real good start.

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Dante
This is what I thinking of as a base.

Why? what does that cost?
What does it do better?

And do you wander around wrecking yards much and notice how frequently all those type of things have rolled over on ordinary hiways in ordinary accidents compared with plain cars?

Why will it not flip as easily for you when you get to hooning it in the woods?
Some might imagine it'll flip even more readily than they flip on the road.

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Dante
This is what I thinking of as a base.

Aren't those well over the displacement limit with forced induction? 4.3L right?

I went off the beaten path (at least in the US) and chose a BMW, but there's plenty of folks rallying them overseas, so they probably meet the "good enough" criteria. Could I have gotten on stage sooner in another car, absolutely. Do I wish it had more power, sure. Do I wish power upgrades for it were cheaper, sure.

Summary: just because you can pick a different vehicle than anyone has posted about on this forum yet doesn't mean we're not going to try and shoot holes in the idea.

Dave

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Dante
There's gotta be a REASON Baja Bill, Jim Cox, Mike, Mark, and Jim Morris drive/drove such ill handling, power hungry, American pieces of crap...right?

Yeah. Because they don't know any better or they are well suited to SW stages. Bill's a good driver and would probably win in a better suited car at a rally like Idaho. He kills the SW rough flat out stages. The Camaro guy was pitiful looking at Idaho but kills it in the SW rallies. Like this tight tree lined rally sucks, let's load up the car and go home.

I can't figure out why anyone ever bought a Pontiac. I definitely don't understand why anyone would ever be inspired to build a Saturn into a rally car after driving one for years.

Yeah, you can rally in anything. Will you be successful or will you be a failure is really where the difference comes in.

Blazers were good for bombing around town in the winter drinking beer in high school. Now I mostly see them as the car that people on welfare that want an SUV buy.

As a side note: I wouldn't mind racing a 240 Ovlov. I drool at Carl's everytime I see it. I watch the 'nets closely everytime the younger Topping races his.

Two things. Ian hasn't been competitive yet. B. As Carl can speak, Volvos aren't available or plentiful in the Yoop.

We don't have the Sleazattle people round here, and the ones that were, rusted away long ago.

As far as the displacement question: I would not be running a power adder. Just a basic SBC.

---

Owner, Driver, Head Mechanic, and Janitor at Tower City Race Team, headquartered near L'Anse. Michigan.
Driver / CoDriver in Rally America, NASARallySport, ARA, AMS, UPMDA, Champ Off Road

https://www.facebook.com/TowerCityRaceTeam/
https://www.instagram.com/towercityraceteam/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2011 07:05PM by Dante.

Quote
Dante
As a side note: I wouldn't mind racing a 240 Ovlov. I drool at Carl's everytime I see it. I watch the 'nets closely everytime the younger Topping races his.

Two things. Ian hasn't been competitive yet. B. As Carl can speak, Volvos aren't available or plentiful in the Yoop.

We don't have the Sleazattle people round here, and the ones that were, rusted away long ago.

As far as the displacement question: I would not be running a power adder. Just a basic SBC.

Says in your signature you have a 2004 Durango.
Ain't that some pick up type thing?
Drive it someplace and tow hom a 240 with the bed full of doors and hoods.
I just found a newbie guy in New Yark City---who's really a Michigan boy transplanted----a 240 in Albany or someplace---he called on the phone while sitting in when he snagged it.

You seem to be avaoiding awnswering questions like "why?" and importantly "how much?".

What's up with that?

What does the thing in mind cost?

Why: Because I may be able to trade for a rolling chassis, have a hot rod motor, and most of the parts.

How much?: Tradeskis = near free

Why again: Easy to find crew. Everyone know Chevy crap.


It does seem like good fun, with a good smiles/dollar ratio. Yes, I know I won't win the Championships and have the fame, glory, big money sponsorships like Mr Greenhouse and Bushore. But I would like to use a quotation from earlier in this thread. I think it defines the sport of RALLY:

"A pointless exercise in futility. A puzzling voluntary torpedoing of any chance ever of decent results in the end solely for the novelty of what is imagined to be "unique"." JVL

---

Owner, Driver, Head Mechanic, and Janitor at Tower City Race Team, headquartered near L'Anse. Michigan.
Driver / CoDriver in Rally America, NASARallySport, ARA, AMS, UPMDA, Champ Off Road

https://www.facebook.com/TowerCityRaceTeam/
https://www.instagram.com/towercityraceteam/

Grant hit the nail on the head on why some of the guys like their trucks. They're really desert off-road guys who also rally, for the most part.

Are you cereal about one of those Syclone/Typhoid things? They're all collected by 3.8 turbo Buick pervs and cost actual money. A stock S10/S15 Blazer is not a rally car. I'd do a 2wd pick-em-up truck before one of the Blazers.

Take Durango, drive to US 2. Drive 1700 miles or so. Pick up $500 Volvo in Seattle, borrow tow dolly @ Uhaul, drive back.

4 days! Or something.

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john vanlandingham
Drive it someplace and tow hom a 240 with the bed full of doors and hoods.

Dont tell him that or my car may go missing in the middle of the night.

If you are willing to venture a bit into WI there are more volvo supplies available. I recently got a set of wheels from Cousineau in Antigo. Strandberg in Centuria specializes in volvo parts, they even have new sheetmetal for 240s. So if you ever go to the twin cities, that is one place to look. Chesney in Duluth seems to have a lot available too, like engines for $200. All those places are doable within a day trip.

Heres a few not too far on craigs list:
89 240, then we could match. In duluth: http://duluth.craigslist.org/cto/2297056775.html
90 wagon. In appleton: http://appleton.craigslist.org/cto/2233324124.html
79. In Menomonie: http://eauclaire.craigslist.org/cto/2278501763.html

And you'll need a matching service rig: http://wausau.craigslist.org/cto/2295325728.html
or this one, it even uses the same big TV lights: http://nmi.craigslist.org/cto/2269219567.html

WI has a decent supply of VW's, too. Or if you want to get on stage sooner, there are like 5 or 6 DSM rally cars in the area here, not that I'd recommend one, but does Tim really need 2? Theres also an RX7 rally car thats been sitting in a polebarn downstate, last used in maybe 95ish. Still looked about like this when I saw it last, maybe 5 or 6 years ago: http://www.comicozzie.com/gallery2/v/1993/por93/POR93_121.jpg.html
There was one other golf rally car in the area, John Hruska's. Havnt seen it lately or looked for it, but it was last used at lspr 07.
Then theres that saab sonet thats been sitting in that store window in calumet for who knows how long...