VW Rear brake project. Maybe TSS could help with this

OK, everyone knows the rear VW beams on mk2 and mk3 cars are not the stongest things in the world but they are simple and work quite well and you can get over 9" of wheel travel with basically zero modification..... But, the rear stub axles and bearing assemblies stink and are expensive.

See end of mk2/mk3 rear beam here
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/TASV6/Corrado%2024V%20V6/Slika0228.jpg

See mk2/mk3 stub & hub/ bearing setup here--hub integrated into rear brake rotor....
http://c1552172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/29708_x600.jpg
http://nitruss-racing.webs.com/rear%20calipers.JPG

I think a good solution might be to be able to bolt the mk4 VW (2000-2006 or so) rear stub axles and bearing assemblies on the older cars.

Like taking this mk4 part
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/TASV6/Corrado%2024V%20V6/DSC00555.jpg

and cutting off the end-plate like so (or just having them cut from steel--TSS)
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/TASV6/DSC00556.jpg

And then either drilling new holes to bolt the mk2/mk3 rear beams or weld them directly on. Then you can bolt on the mk4 stub axles and bearings that look like this:
http://www.urotuning.com/shop/images/1J0501117BMY.jpg
http://store01.prostores.com/vwparts4sale/catalog/87a8_1_b_1239_1.JPG
http://i.ebayimg.com/10/!Bvbpu7!Bmk~$(KGrHqQOKkIEwQB5rLUMBMEkJQg4Hw~~_35.JPG

Allowing you to move away from the 8.9" solid rotor to a 9.1" solid rotor or a 10.1" vented rotor using stock VW parts that bolt right on. Rotors are easy to swap and can even be had with aluminum hats for cheap. And easy to move to even 11" (or larger) rotors if desired.

Plus, you move to 5x100 bolt pattern wheels. The only downside is that most of these will be 15" wheels--but with the utter lack of 14" gravel tires available these days--- might as well move to 15" tires and cut the fenders and add fender flares. And of course we would want to have 5x100 in the front too which is easy enough to do...and allows one to run the beefier VR6 and TDI stock axles which may solve some people's CV failures (although I think motor mounts are the biggest culprit here).


Thoughts?
Interest?
Alternatives?

But to your issue. Welding a plate with matching threads for the MKIV stubs seems your best bet. That way, if you bend a stub you don't have to replace the whole beam. If you hit the stub hard enough to bend it, unless you did the VWmotorsports trick of bracing, you probably bent the beam anyway?


I think we need to band together and wave cash in front of Whiskers' face to order the 14" Dmacks. I heard a story of someone buying a shipping container of 14" tires and then sitting on them because all the "yeah I'll buy them" people ended up not buying them (or not buying enough).

There's still good 14" tire options out there with Lassa and Yokohamas. I had intial concerns of their performance in 0C+ temps. The Bushores put in a good performance at 100AW in chilly conditions so that gave me confidence that they could be a good 100AW/LSPR tire.

Also, I would have loved to move to 15" wheels/tires but they don't fit so well in my Honda wheel wells and I lose sidewall height, which I like over bent wheels and gives a bit more bump absorption. Here's Matt Johnston's Integra (same wheel well size, if not a bit bigger than my Civic) on big fatty rally 15's. I am not always a fan of the wheel rub on compression, but that's just me.

Quote
BillyElliot
I think we need to band together and wave cash in front of Whiskers' face to order the 14" Dmacks. I heard a story of someone buying a shipping container of 14" tires and then sitting on them because all the "yeah I'll buy them" people ended up not buying them (or not buying enough).

There's still good 14" tire options out there with Lassa and Yokohamas. I had intial concerns of their performance in 0C+ temps. The Bushores put in a good performance at 100AW in chilly conditions so that gave me confidence that they could be a good 100AW/LSPR tire.

What's buying enough? If you can find a good source for 60cm tall 14" tires...

Lassa seems ok but they are too short. yoko (185/65r14) is good and available but getting pricey and from running mediums at STPR seem to wear faster than the silverstones (or we have more power now and wear them faster). Wish I could get the 14" silverstones at $140 a pop.

The Lassa's really don't seem much smaller than the BFG. They're 175/65, but seem taller than the Kook's in the same size.

Wear is good, but wet traction was poor compared to Silverstones (Huebbe's killed me in the slop w/ their bug).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2011 10:33AM by fliz.

Since we're talking about tires, I'll share this bit of sluething I did ~6 months ago. Aside from the 'calc' column, all values are provided by the manufacturer. No contacts were made to see if any of these are actually available to purchase - just looked to see what was even on the market.

MFR	        Model	Size	    Euro Size	Dia (calc)  Section Width (MFR)	Dia (MFR)   Tread Width (MFR)		Link
BFG		        175/70-14   14/60-14	600	    182	                633	    146	                $195	http://www.subesports.com/products/cat/Tires/brand/BF+Goodrich+Rally/prodID/2206
Yokohama	A035	175/65-14		583				                                $190
Yokohama	A035	185/65-14		596				                                $190
Silverstone	S55	175/65-14   14/59-14	583	    166	                590	    144	                $140	http://www.taborrallyteam.com/s55.html
Silverstone	S505		    14/60-14		    181	                605	    150	                $135	http://www.silverstonecompetitiontyres.com/S505.htm
DMack	        DMG2	175/70-14		600	    165	                595	    146		                http://www.dmacktyres.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/DMACK-PRODUCT-LIST-2011.pdf
Lassa	        Rally 1	175/65-14		584				                                $113	http://rally-tire.com/

More tire discussion...

www.treadzone.com lists Hankooks and Yoko's...I have not called to see what they actually have to sell.

Quote
fliz
More tire discussion...

www.treadzone.com lists Hankooks and Yoko's...I have not called to see what they actually have to sell.

Weren't the Hankooks hard hockey pucks of tires that folks only ran because they had a contingency program?

(I know someone has a set locally that they've been rallycrossing on for 5+ years and they hardly show any wear...)

Quote
fliz
More tire discussion...

www.treadzone.com lists Hankooks and Yoko's...I have not called to see what they actually have to sell.

Bought our yoko's from treadzone, they were able to get 2 more that weren't in stock. but things seem to dry up pretty quick some times.

Tom B. and JVL need to chime in here. I think that they have been talking about using the Mk IV stub axle.

My only problems with these conversions are the problems created by increasing the track width and the need for a fuel cell.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Quote
Rallymech
Tom B. and JVL need to chime in here. I think that they have been talking about using the Mk IV stub axle.

My only problems with these conversions are the problems created by increasing the track width and the need for a fuel cell.

Fuel cell is only if you do the VWmotorsports supprots on the beam since the fuel tank is located the same place you put your supports.

What's wrong with more track as long as it's pretty equal front and rear?

Quote
Rallymech
Tom B. and JVL need to chime in here. I think that they have been talking about using the Mk IV stub axle.

My only problems with these conversions are the problems created by increasing the track width and the need for a fuel cell.

Only been talking about it since I saw the later 900 Saab hubs back in oh, say 1990

Problem is like even you Robert have how many fawkin 4 on 100 wheels of various sorts??
Like dozens?

Lets get Tom to drag a hub down and the stub.
Make it BOLT ON for transferability. I'll see if we can do the 4 on 100 thang.
Get a good disc and a little burn out bracket for the caliper...

Where is that damn Tom anyway?
We're we 'spossed to have a "How to shim your LSD for love, peace and happiness happening?"

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

The near endless supply of cheap 4x100 14" wheels does make switching to 5x100 less appealing.

And small 15" tires are even harder to find than 14" tires. Honestly I've never NOT been able to buy 14s, I just can't always get the same brand year-to-year. The two years I spent on $100 closeout BFGs was AWESOME.

That, and although I've gone through quite a few rear beams (MK2 & MK3), I've never bent a stub axle or had a bearing failure. I have to tighten the bearings almost every service, and I replace them when I do rotors, but no failures.

And even rear beams...it just bends further and further, it doesn't break. And it really only bends if you're pounding the rear end off the banks. The worst I had was WV where the car was driving sideways down the straights by the end...and even then the handling wasn't TOO bad.

Just the weakness of the rear beam would make me want a bolt-on adapter plate to even consider this. Then it all comes down to a cost savings on rotors/bearings vs. cost of the initial setup.

I thought about bringing in a container of half container of 14" gravels at one point.

wasn't I going to look at one of these and bring one down ages ago? maybe it is party time at Robert's place to look at all the transmission carnage and have an idea for the shitty vw rear bearing thing....

---

-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
Spitfire EFI | Product Apparel | JVAB Imports | NLS | AP Tuning | USRT

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Call me Tom! and check you pm.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.