1994 Subaru Legacy Turbo, gots to go to NA

So I just drove a combined total of about 9 hours to pick up the car discussed here: http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?7,50697

Was able to get the car for $1800 + some Subaru parts for the guys RS. One hell of a deal. The cage is solid, but might need updating, though the logbook shows that it was declared okay on 10/06 for LSPR, so might be under the magical date for RA cages? Will be taking it up to Izzy's Custom Cages in St. Louis in a month to have him take a look at the cage and update it with any safety things he feels will be necessary while I am out of the country. I am wanting this to become a solid, safe car. I was co-driving at Olympus and befriended Matt Marker mere hours before his death, and it had quite an impact on me, so I am doing what I can to make sure this car is as safe as it can be.

Aside from the safety stuff, it also needs an NA engine since I don't have enough coefficients to run Open.... Unless co-driver coefficients count, then I might.... But I am pretty sure they don't. I have done engine swaps before on newer subarus, but if anyone has any info on how to do a clean NA engine swap into an older legacy, I would be greatful. I am looking to make this into a solid Open Light car and leave as that, if I want to step up my game later on down the road I would rather sell this car to another new guy to start his rally career then to try and turn it into an Open car.

Can't post any pictures while at work, but I'll put some up tonight.

i know the guys that built that car.

a good combination for that car is to use a N/A 2.5 liter block with some dual exhaust port N/A 2.2 liter heads with the torque grind cams from Delta. that will get you close to what the 2.2 turbo puts out with stock boost levels.

using the 2.2 heads will allow you to use the existing intake manifold. if you use 2.5 heads you will need to source out the 2.5 manifold and everything else that goes with it.

for this kind of stuff bbs.legacycentral.org is a great site. it is dedicated to the 1st gen legacy with a heavy focus on the sport sedan you have.

a couple people to look for there are matt monson, legacy 777, and biggreen96. matt is they guy to talk to about these engines and what fits with what, he has built several of the motors i suggested. legacy 777 is a great resource for diagrams and general info and biggreen96 is currently rallying a 1st gen legacy with a 3.3 out of a svx.

of course a regular old 2.2 with some cams will get the job done too, be bulletproof and be plenty fast enough to get you into trouble.
there is also another guy that has rallied a legacy with the 2.5/2.2 combo with great success.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2011 03:11PM by Greg Donovan.

You wouldn't happen to know if this thing has an aftermarket ECU? I swear this thing has Antilag. When I am off-throttle it sounds exactly like my Group N ALS mode on my WRX, zero positive boost pressure, lots of little popping and banging, responsive as hell. But no idea what has been done to this engine prior. Right now have the MBC set to very low until I figure out more about this car.

Thanks for the tips about the engine combo! Will be doing a lot of research in the coming weeks.

If I was doing a Le-gassy (congrats on a good choice, just remember since they sound like farting elephants the Oafish-al nom d'e guerre for the car is "le-Gassy" accent on seconde syllable.)
I'd slap together a 2.5 (size matters in n.a.), bop the compression as high as I could, like maybe 11.5 and find some cams with around 265-280 degrees duration@ 050 , (compression matters even more than size) no more than 11mm lift..

Then I'd find some short gears. 4.44 at an absolute minimum.


Simple. And there is nothing inherently wrong with the Le-gassy so why talk of dumping it later..?
Get extra shells so you can drive iot like you stole it, so when the inevitable happens you shrug and re-shell and keep all the goodies from the wrecked car.

Remember torque is alays good. Torque is, briefly motor size times corrected compression.
Gearing also makes torque. 3.9 makes 13% less torque multiplication than 4.44 does.

Just imagine if you could find some 4.88s...insta 25% more yank every RPM..

and that is not unreasonable (the tires we use gears you "up' maybe 6% so that 135 more you just won going to 4.44 ends up being just 7% when the tires are tall.
Gears gear you down and multiply toque, tires gear you up and piss away torque


Kinda like longer duration, high lift and makes more breathing, but that long duration pisses away comp, so we compensate beforehand.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

GO RWD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
r180 and the box kit problem solved

Quote
john vanlandingham


Then I'd find some short gears. 4.44 at an absolute minimum.

The only problem with the 4.44's is they break a lot. I have a whole stack of broken 4.44 ring & pinions from Dave Hintz's Subaru. Even the fancy micropolished $800 Prodrive units didn't last any longer than stock. When he switched to the 3.90's he never broke any more ring and pinions. Something to keep in mind.

I have a center diff if you need another to weld up? just cost shipping.
you might never go to open class!

you can have 8 rwd trannys by the time you build and pay for that na motor.
keep the turbo makes up for all the crappy gears.

Wow.
4.44 gearboxes can be found in a Forester. Smaller teeth means they break more though. In an Open Light car you are likely fine.

Personally, I'd just drop a stock 2.2 engine in it to start with. Reliable, cheap, and did I mention reliable. I'm swapping a 2.2 in place of a 2.5 in a buddies 99 Outback that blew the head gasket.

You could probably buy a Legacy for $500 with a decent engine and have a spare shell for spare parts and such. Or just buy the car, yank whatever parts you need, then crush the shell.

Gear ratios in Subarus aren't that bad. Nothing like the drop you get in alot of Honda and VWs anyhow.

Did yours have the VLSD? It was standard in 91 and optional in the rest of the years.

Personally, I'd pull the turbo and get some coefficients. Or see if they'd let you run it as is but with a smaller restrictor or something. One Open class Subaru here was ran as Open Light by just gutting the turbine side of the turbo so that it didn't actually do anything. That way at least there was no modifications to exhaust or intake. Though with the low compression it will be a dog.

I still want that car by the way.

Wow! I did NOT expect these kind of replies. I like it here already.

I had never even considered RWD until now. I knew it would be possible to go FWD by sourcing an older FWD trans, but the thought of RWD never crossed my mind.

It does have a rear VLSD, I remember finding a SpecialStage thread from 2007 with the car originally for sale ($6k) and it listed a rear LSD. Currently sitting on KYB AGX's with Ground Control springs and dry rotted strut tops. Will probably just run it as is for my first rally and see where to go from there.

As for if I did an engine swap, what would the wiring be like? Aftermarket ECU? I do a lot of my own tuning on my WRX using OpenSource, so would feel perfectly comfortable tuning an engine via laptop.

Thanks for all the replies so far!

How big are the flat 6? if its 3.0 or whatever you can squeze into G2...

Quote
Doivi Clarkinen

Quote
john vanlandingham


Then I'd find some short gears. 4.44 at an absolute minimum.

The only problem with the 4.44's is they break a lot. I have a whole stack of broken 4.44 ring & pinions from Dave Hintz's Subaru. Even the fancy micropolished $800 Prodrive units didn't last any longer than stock. When he switched to the 3.90's he never broke any more ring and pinions. Something to keep in mind.

Of course in a restrictor motor optimised for torque cause they can rev, that's one thing.
In a nearly torqueless 2.5 Subie thang, its quite another.

What's the actual toofie counts?
3.9 japanese seem top lile 10/39
Whats' the 4.44?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Dropping a 2.2 shortblock into this car is very easy. Don't need to do too much wiring. I think that you can even just swap ecus, but I think the turbo ecu will run the car w/a non turbo motor.

Tuning these cars can be a pain. They are OBD1 and are open loop. Talk to the guys at legacy central about that. Some have had good results with a Perfect Power 6 piggy back unit.

However, arent there a few NASA Rallysport events Dow that way?

Oh, hang on to this motor. It is a damn sturdy engine.

I wanted this car too. It was just too far away and came up at the wrong time for me.

Enjoy!

it runs use it 1 day it could be rwd all the rear end parts to get for
rwd are things you want for awd anyway. If you have the credit
for gp5 why not.

People like to watch rwd they will love your car for it and you will have fun sliding it all
over the place



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2011 01:55AM by SteelSolutions.

Quote
john vanlandingham


Of course in a restrictor motor optimised for torque cause they can rev, that's one thing.
In a nearly torqueless 2.5 Subie thang, its quite another.

What's the actual toofie counts?
3.9 japanese seem top lile 10/39
Whats' the 4.44?

I think it was 10/44, without looking at one.