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Ken Lewis
Godlike Moderator
Location: Littleton CO
Join Date: 06/29/2011
Posts: 32

Rally Car:
96 coupe 2.5 swaped and stripped waiting for a cage


Re: safety cage
July 14, 2011 08:00AM
cool grant thanks I never thought of welding the tops on the floor and then pop it on top of the sill plates for all the roundy round cages I've done we just cut the roof at the pillars which is what I planned to do mock and tack everything with the roof in place then cut the roof final weld everything then reinstall the roof
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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
Junior Moderator
Location: Edmonds, Washington
Join Date: 02/12/2009
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 1,802

Rally Car:
Building a Merkur


Re: safety cage
July 14, 2011 12:59PM
I have seen 2" holes cut in the floor so you can drop the cage down,weld all the tops, then put the cage back up, slide the plates under, and weld it up. No need to cut the roof off. I would never do that.
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fliz
Chad Eixenberger
Senior Moderator
Location: Grafton, WI
Join Date: 02/01/2007
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 484

Rally Car:
1988 VW Golf #687


Re: safety cage
July 14, 2011 01:55PM
Quote
phlat65
I have seen 2" holes cut in the floor so you can drop the cage down,weld all the tops, then put the cage back up, slide the plates under, and weld it up. No need to cut the roof off. I would never do that.
Yeah, the only reason we cut the roof off on my car is a new roof was $50 and easier than welding up the sunroof hole in the stock roof.
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Doivi Clarkinen
Banned
Super Moderator
Location: the end of the universe
Join Date: 02/12/2006
Age: Ancient
Posts: 1,432

Rally Car:
1980 Opel Ascona B



Re: safety cage
July 14, 2011 06:29PM
Quote
puckhead
cool grant thanks I never thought of welding the tops on the floor and then pop it on top of the sill plates for all the roundy round cages I've done we just cut the roof at the pillars which is what I planned to do mock and tack everything with the roof in place then cut the roof final weld everything then reinstall the roof

You must like doing things the hard way.
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FunctionAuto
Tyler Patik
Mod Moderator
Location: Casper, Wy
Join Date: 12/13/2009
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 131

Rally Car:
1995 IMpreza



Re: safety cage
July 17, 2011 12:03AM
Quote
BillyElliot
Ryan at TRF put the A-pillar bars so that they lined up with the line of sight from my seat position. Pretty much doesn't add to the blind spots at all. It looks goofy from other angles and seems they sit too far back when viewed from the side, but they still sit close to the A-pillar.

I never really thought of it, but it was a clever design.



There is a thread somewhere about an engineer at Prodrive building his own civic hatch or Crx and he cut in to the A-pillar and tucked and welded the cage part-way into, similar to how Havas does the sill bars. Has anyone ever tried that? Is it legal? Or is it just a matter of time vs benefits? I like the idea myself but could see where it would be a pain.
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phlat65
Sean Medcroft
Junior Moderator
Location: Edmonds, Washington
Join Date: 02/12/2009
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 1,802

Rally Car:
Building a Merkur


Re: safety cage
July 17, 2011 09:37PM
The only issue I would see with that is ease of roof skin replacement after a roll. I also like the Andrew does his sill bars
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puckhead
Ken Lewis
Godlike Moderator
Location: Littleton CO
Join Date: 06/29/2011
Posts: 32

Rally Car:
96 coupe 2.5 swaped and stripped waiting for a cage


Re: safety cage
July 18, 2011 01:01PM
The sills are getting recessed like havas does and I am just leaving the roof now and patching the sunroof. I got started this weekend after cutting spotwelds for a day. I have the passenger side sill bar and rear boxing plate installed as well as the driver side sill bar tacked. I am going to run dom for my seat mounts and I am thinking about adding an extra bar after loosing matt in wa. it would help prevent heavy driver/codriver intrusion in the event of a square door hit
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
Mod Moderator
Location: Whitefish, MT
Join Date: 01/11/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 6,818

Rally Car:
BMW



Re: safety cage
July 18, 2011 01:16PM
Havas sill bars look pretty but I have a few concerns and will likely never do anything of the sort. They probably make the chassis stiffer but also reduce the amount of material and the reaction of the cage/shell in a side impact. On the other hand, they also mean it's harder for the sill bar to deform as it now has alot more material, but does that transition into a desirable difference?
And that's really what it all comes down to. Desirable differences. I don't know of anyone who has the budget or engineering skills to accurately model how those differences affect survivability. Until then, I'll stick to the traditional rules and let ideas like Andrew's sill bars be tested by other people. Imagine if those sill bars actually result in a greater g-load impact on the passenger. I know I wouldn't want to be present in court in that case. Can you show that what you have done differently does not cause greater harm than what the accepted international standard is (FIA 253)? If that question cannot be answered scientifically in a method that would stand up in court, you will not see me embracing it. I feel that way about 'unique' ideas with door bars, from the bent V's to the weird U's to Nascar bars. If it's not a common and globally accepted standard of practice, I will not utilize it.
I'm sure the guys who built the cage of the car in front of me felt that the design was better to have the skid plate attach to the cage feet. Probably a great increase in chassis stiffness and marginally improved handling. Of course, once they center punched that tree and pushed the engine 26" back and the burly skid plate meant the only way it could go was into the firewall breaking three or four ankles and one back along the way, they might have decided that maybe that wasn't a worthwhile creative adaptation.
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puckhead
Ken Lewis
Godlike Moderator
Location: Littleton CO
Join Date: 06/29/2011
Posts: 32

Rally Car:
96 coupe 2.5 swaped and stripped waiting for a cage


Re: safety cage
August 08, 2011 08:22AM
spent a few weeks fitting the main hoop and the half lateral bars I am happy with it it beeing my first rally cage and all I need some help finding bobbins to make seat supports where do I get them at any help is welcome
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Junior Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Fossilized
Posts: 14,152

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: safety cage
August 08, 2011 08:42AM
Quote
puckhead
spent a few weeks fitting the main hoop and the half lateral bars I am happy with it it beeing my first rally cage and all I need some help finding bobbins to make seat supports where do I get them at any help is welcome

Got a sketch of what you need?
Better, yet, splain--ideally a sketch---why bobbins for seat mounting?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
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puckhead
Ken Lewis
Godlike Moderator
Location: Littleton CO
Join Date: 06/29/2011
Posts: 32

Rally Car:
96 coupe 2.5 swaped and stripped waiting for a cage


Re: safety cage
August 08, 2011 07:18PM
I just need something to weld into the tube I am using for my seat supports I guess I can find some 3/8 dowel and drill and tap it or should I just leave it untapped
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Junior Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Fossilized
Posts: 14,152

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: safety cage
August 08, 2011 09:30PM
Quote
puckhead
I just need something to weld into the tube I am using for my seat supports I guess I can find some 3/8 dowel and drill and tap it or should I just leave it untapped

I ask because I use "Unistrut" which is profiled shelving stuff that is all perforated and both very strong and very light and being full of holes is really flexible for seat mounting and has a nice flat top.



I also have very nice weld nuts in both M10 and M12 which are short stumpy versions of the "bobbins",

Like this only fatter body (3/4"winking smiley and a nice .100 "washer" part to weld on.

Oh, of course the thread is DIN M10 or M10 x 1.5mm so Ok you can get the bolts in any hardware store worldwide but it's not the made up out of thin air Japonaise M10



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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urr
Andrew Sutherland
Ultra Moderator
Location: Studio City CA / Camas WA
Join Date: 02/22/2008
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Posts: 275

Rally Car:
Subaru, EVO, Honda, Husky



urr
Re: safety cage
August 09, 2011 01:08PM
mcmaster sells that slotted channel U tubing. I've used it before for seats as well and it works great.

Andrew
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alkun
Albert Kun
Godlike Moderator
Location: SF Ca.
Join Date: 01/07/2008
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 1,732

Rally Car:
volvo 242


Re: safety cage
August 09, 2011 01:52PM
Quote
john vanlandingham

I also have very nice weld nuts in both M10 and M12 which are short stumpy versions of the "bobbins",



Mongo want!
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Junior Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Fossilized
Posts: 14,152

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: safety cage
August 09, 2011 02:30PM
Quote
alkun
Quote
john vanlandingham

I also have very nice weld nuts in both M10 and M12 which are short stumpy versions of the "bobbins",



Mongo want!

Mongo call. Mongo dirty bastid for no call with Mongo Post rally debrief.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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