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BillyElliot
I'm a newb when it comes to neon suspension, but what's so bad about the front suspension? With SRT-4's and good drivers pretty much mopping the floor in 2WD rally events, it seems it more than makes up well in other areas. Maybe you can't WRC it and ditch hook everything and run over anything, but that's pretty much the way it is in just about any car.

You're a nooob when it comes to reading, too Billy

What could be unclear in:
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SteelSolutions
Yawn not much never looked in to it, no gears or limited slips and I guess there
are some really week parts in the trans. A srt 4 is fast but that seems to be about it.

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Agreed. EXTREMEEEEEEly limited front suspension travel, hoooooooorible packaging, and I have see a surprising number in the yards with big holes in the side of the block where the rods decided to go out, presumable for coffee and bagels.


John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

EXTREEEEEEEEMELY LIMITED front suspension travel.

And sure some people have had good results,
but in a land of blind men a one eyed man is king.

Maybe some people want to do better than beat a few newbs in half warmed garage projects AND have more fun

Just watch this and tell me a guy could have fun in some understeering only way to get grip is to weldf the diff-just waiting for the motor to pop type fwd pile to the same degree as somebody driving a car like this:
<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="

?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param>

Did I mention EXTREMEEEEEEly limited front suspension travel????

Cause the way its built it would be very difficult to do anything about the EXTREMEEEEEEly limited front suspension travel,

Maybe you don't care about EXTREMEEEEEEly limited front suspension travel, , but for most of us we know it sooner or later means we break more stuff.
So EXTREMEEEEEEly limited front suspension travel, sucks.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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urr

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BillyElliot
I'm a newb when it comes to neon suspension, but what's so bad about the front suspension? With SRT-4's and good drivers pretty much mopping the floor in 2WD rally events, it seems it more than makes up well in other areas. Maybe you can't WRC it and ditch hook everything and run over anything, but that's pretty much the way it is in just about any car.

Suspension travel is pretty limited, as is the selection of quality dampers. They're nose heavy, have sooooper long gearing that's spaced pretty bad and they're just not that well balanced. But their power plant makes up for most of that, and with most rally cars, the driver is the biggest factor.

Andrew

What limits the suspension travel? What is their total wheel travel in compression/droop?

On a side note, I think an SRT-4 would be a pretty powerful Euro RallyX car as well.

low hood on the older ones look like they made up for that with a super short strut so im guessing
a good long strut would go threw the hood. arms are junk but so are all new shit box's, I did see
some funky arm bulge that look like a limiter. Anything can be made to work but why start 3 more
steps behind other cars.

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BillyElliot
Neon will be a turd for a G2 car...
Chris Greenhouse's Neon is pretty well built for a G2 and it's still a turd in my opinion. After some hybrid mix of the best-of-the-best neon transmissions his 3rd gear is slightly shorter than my 5th gear.

they seem to do really well for whatever reason. the numbers show that the wheelbase is a big number compared to say a short over rotating mazda 323 or suzuki swift....

yep, Chris does have a few "hardened" custom parts. i.e., more metal and more welds.

and with no v-tech super high revvy WAHHHHHH motor in the neon i could see a 2.4L with high compression being a decent vvvaahh-room motor.

hmm...

i'm still having problems finding a 2003-2005 neon for $1200 or less. wonder how much that RSF2000 kit will be....

who wants an accent motor and trans and wiring harness and stuff ?

-Brian R. Barton

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BillyElliot
Chris Greenhouse's Neon is pretty well built for a G2 and it's still a turd in my opinion.

...and it's not the '03-up car.

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brianallmotor


i'm still having problems finding a 2003-2005 neon for $1200 or less. wonder how much that RSF2000 kit will be....


-Brian R. Barton

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/ctd/2523800294.html

http://altoona.craigslist.org/cto/2524566596.html

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/2525451351.html

They're a ton of them for under $2k out there....just need to know where to look.

Andrew

I have seen an SRT-4 set blazing times at rally idaho, he beat K.jackson, and Paul Eklund.

Rally Idaho does have the smoothest roads anywhere. you could get away with 2" total suspension travel on those roads..

lauchlin won 2 max attack events in 09 , Idaho (where he won overall) , and Minnesota /Ojibwe Forests never been there, but from video the roads look smooth.

rallies like Gorman, Desert storm, HDT (07-10 old roads) would probably give you problems. you can slow down for the rough stuff or break parts on the rough stuff. (maybe you'll get lucky)

It would make an Okay P car, but i'de much rather have a ford focus SVT , or SE-R, or acura ... or anything making 150hp stock over a neon ...

I'd only go Neon if
1) i was building an STR-4 ... and avoiding really rough rallies
2) i was buying one way cheap
3) neon fan boy (i'm a subaru fan boy though)

If you were only going to do like 2 rallies a year ... (Idaho + NNR) sure why not you don't need suspension travel at idaho .. NNR has some jumps but if you just take them a little bit slower.

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A1337STI
I have seen an SRT-4 set blazing times at rally idaho, he beat K.jackson, and Paul Eklund.

Rally Idaho does have the smoothest roads anywhere. you could get away with 2" total suspension travel on those roads..

lauchlin won 2 max attack events in 09 , Idaho (where he won overall) , and Minnesota /Ojibwe Forests never been there, but from video the roads look smooth.

rallies like Gorman, Desert storm, HDT (07-10 old roads) would probably give you problems. you can slow down for the rough stuff or break parts on the rough stuff. (maybe you'll get lucky)

It would make an Okay P car, but i'de much rather have a ford focus SVT , or SE-R, or acura ... or anything making 150hp stock over a neon ...

I'd only go Neon if
1) i was building an STR-4 ... and avoiding really rough rallies
2) i was buying one way cheap
3) neon fan boy (i'm a subaru fan boy though)

If you were only going to do like 2 rallies a year ... (Idaho + NNR) sure why not you don't need suspension travel at idaho .. NNR has some jumps but if you just take them a little bit slower.

I believe that's spelled "fan boi".
And at least with a SUB-a-rat, one can find reasonably OK ish final drive ratios....
What a folly to even think of a car with sky high MPG gearing and no alternate ratios and diffs available.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 12:39PM by john vanlandingham.

I have a second gen (2000 and up) Neon. I only have one rally on it so far so here are my thoughts.

1) Cheap as hell. They are super plentiful and spares are all over the place.
2) SOHC engine is a bit under powered at 135HP, but revs freely and with simple design can take abuse. If you blow it up, go to pick-and-pull and get another one for $200. With cam and stroked, the engines can turn 220-230HP all-motor, albeit on race gas/E85 and limited lifespans. The PCM cannot be hacked and written to like Subaru, Mitsu, etc. You can piggyback a controller, or buy a custom PCM. Not so much a concern for the NA guys, but for the SRT4, a standalone like Megasquirt is the way to go.
3) Lack of good LSD. I have two trannys with a nice tall final drive, one with a spool and one with a welded diff. With a solid front end, it's a bit tough to drive on tarmac, but a dream on dirt with predictable traction pulling you through every corner. The car will not understeer with the right application of the stupid pedal.
4) Pretty damn tough shell once it's caged and welded. I know my car had a few pretty good off in it's prior life and it is still a solid rig.
5) I just measured my car in the garage and I have just shy of 8" of suspension travel on my front suspension. Mind you, these are with KW variant 3 gravel shocks/springs with 52MM shafts. Stock suspension will not keep up for long.
6) Long wheelbase means LFB and pretty good steering input/weight transfer to get them rotated.

We'll see how I do long-term in this car. Honestly, it was the best deal going at the time when I was looking for a G2 car that was ready to go with spares and a solid history.

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SeanP

5) I just measured my car in the garage and I have just shy of 8" of suspension travel on my front suspension. Mind you, these are with KW variant 3 gravel shocks/springs with 52MM shafts. Stock suspension will not keep up for long.

In the front???
You sure?
I worry about doing 190mm travel in cars that star with more that yours cause i don't want to stress the CVs...

and


Ya know i just spent some time looking at KW German web site...
I see the largest diameter spring seat they have is for M52x 1.5 thread.
That means the lower tube OD is threaded M52 or 52mm
There has to be some wall thickness, and some bearing or bushing inside the tube... I sorta wonder if the the threads of the tube can possibly be the same as the "shaft"..

It was my imprssion that the INSERT diameter---the chrome thang inside the springs---was 40mm...
Can you check? I would be happy if the body of the insert was 50...

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

just measured with calipers 1.8" = 45MM. Plenty stout for me and just shy of the 2" shocks on my rock crawler that weighs twice what my Neon weighs. As far as stressing the CV's, the most extreme angle is going to be when the wheel is at full-droop (as it is in the pictures) and its not going to have a full load of throttle/traction at that point in the cycle as it will be AIRBORN. The car came with 8 spare axles and a buddy of mine runs a cryo/heat treating business, so I am not so concerned about the CV's breaking from suspension travel. I am concerned about the CV's being under load when the wheel is truned and throttle is slammed (ie, Rallycross). Moreso because of the spool.

quaife is good, what's the big deal with that? i google that neon's take a quaife unit if you can find one...

and suspension travel is a big concern, but again..... neons seem to do well!

sentra would be nice, lil too old for me i think tho. ehh.

A local SRT4 (it was one of the ex-factory mopar cars) had repeated issues with the KW suspension over extending the CVs and breaking axles, even with high dollar drive shaft shop axles. He eventually got it worked out after 2 or 3 DNFs because of axle breakage, I think that may have included sending the suspension back to KW in Deutschland.

So you might want to think about exactly why the previous owner felt it necessary to have 8 spare axles on hand. The most spare axles I've ever had in the service truck at a rally was 4, and that was in an awd car.

If I were looking to do a neon I'd call up Cary Kendall and see what he has to say, hes the one that sorted the suspension/cv issues on the srt4 I mentioned above. He has his own ex-factory srt4 as well, which is the one that O'Sullivan rented for LSPR last year to battle Doug Shepard in his SRT4.

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Carl S
A local SRT4 (it was one of the ex-factory mopar cars) had repeated issues with the KW suspension over extending the CVs and breaking axles, even with high dollar drive shaft shop axles. He eventually got it worked out after 2 or 3 DNFs because of axle breakage, I think that may have included sending the suspension back to KW in Deutschland.

So you might want to think about exactly why the previous owner felt it necessary to have 8 spare axles on hand. The most spare axles I've ever had in the service truck at a rally was 4, and that was in an awd car.

If I were looking to do a neon I'd call up Cary Kendall and see what he has to say, hes the one that sorted the suspension/cv issues on the srt4 I mentioned above. He has his own ex-factory srt4 as well, which is the one that O'Sullivan rented for LSPR last year to battle Doug Shepard in his SRT4.

Good to know. I am sure that my neon was built on the same line as those SRT4's. I have run limiting straps for years in crawlers and friend's desert rigs. Compression travel is much more import to me than down travel.

Quaifes just dont stand up in the Neon's as I have read, requiring frequent repacks of the clutch packs. I will stick with the lincoln locker.

I wonder if Jack Szanto and Kris Marciniak have seen this thread (or are now pissed that I've suggested they might be lurking)? Marciniak has been doing very well in a 1G Neon since 2005 and is now mid-way through a 2G Neon G5 car. You might want to check it out over at Rallynotes.com.

At the end of the day, it might be said the best rally cars are the ones that keep racing.

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest