Gravity Fed Alex Staidle Super Moderator Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp Join Date: 08/21/2009 Age: Settling Down Posts: 1,719 Rally Car: Various Heaps |
Well the rx7 has had the front sway bar on it for what appears like some time and it seems to be the reason why the 10% stiffer than stock springs (stock being like 100 or so) worked rather well. But i feel as though i could get some improvements from a stiffer front springs and removal of the sway bar. Namely a little weight savings (probably 25lbs), perhaps better turn in and what have you. Most of the reads i have been finding were centered around Front wheel drive applications. I did find some information from a Datsun 510 with mixed results.
Im likely to just disconnect the end links (once the car is all running again...) and try it out but im curious about the technically aspects of it and how to approximate the weight of the spring needed. Since the P30 inserts have dried up, i have considered letting JVL mastermind something 'more better'. But due to some budget constraints i may want to wait a year and try out the last set of P30s i have for an event or two. |
Doivi Clarkinen Banned Super Moderator Location: the end of the universe Join Date: 02/12/2006 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,432 Rally Car: 1980 Opel Ascona B |
Sway bars don't do anything to stiffen the suspension, you know. They just limit the body roll. You can use stiffer springs and keep the sway bar. It just depends on how you want to tune the suspension. For example, is the car using a rear sway bar? Does the car have a tendency to push right now? If it's already tail happy removing the front sway bar will magnify that. That said some rally cars work well with no sway bars. On loose surfaces you do want to promote some weight transfer as that helps grip in the corners. On Dave Hintz's BMW the advice from Sweden was nobody runs a rear sway bar and very few run a front sway bar. So we don't run any and it works very well. On my Opel I run a front (but stock and not very big) but no rear.
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Pete Pete Remner Senior Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
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Gravity Fed Alex Staidle Super Moderator Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp Join Date: 08/21/2009 Age: Settling Down Posts: 1,719 Rally Car: Various Heaps |
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john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Infallible Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
You don't think the stock 3.75" upper link plays s beeeeeeeeeeeeg role is making the handling "interesting", huh? John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Tim Taylor Tim Taylor Elite Moderator Location: Oakland, CA Join Date: 02/02/2007 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 622 Rally Car: Mazda 323 GTX |
The rear suspension geometry on those cars binds in roll. That's why they use such big squishy bushings on all the links. If you want to see a huge improvement in rear cornering grip ditch the upper links for a single long upper 3rd link. Then tear off that silly asymmetrical watts linkage and replace it with a panhard rod. The difference it dramatic...
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john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Infallible Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Do you think that 2 long upper arms MIGHT also be a viable solution rather than some morpohodite growth sticking out of the top of the diff smashing thru the floor? Right thru the wheel arches like Millen did nearly 30 years ago?? John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Pete Pete Remner Senior Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
Alex, how long are you going to be in Cleveland? |
Pete Pete Remner Senior Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
It might, but the 3 link is guaranteed to never bind no matter what you do, and no matter if you have the suspension set up for loads of antisquat or not, and it's simple to do because of the way the floor is shaped. All you're really doing is cutting the top off of the existing diff hump and moving it up a few inches. Adding the four link through the wheel arches could also be as simple, but the 3 link is nice because it can tie into the lateral channel quick and simple. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2011 12:27PM by Pete. |
Gravity Fed Alex Staidle Super Moderator Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp Join Date: 08/21/2009 Age: Settling Down Posts: 1,719 Rally Car: Various Heaps |
About a week and a half |
Doivi Clarkinen Banned Super Moderator Location: the end of the universe Join Date: 02/12/2006 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,432 Rally Car: 1980 Opel Ascona B |
This is what Andrew Havas did to his RX-7 and it worked pretty well for him. I thinkhe may have even made the lower arms longer. |
Pete Pete Remner Senior Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
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mellow65 Oliver Klozoff Junior Moderator Location: Oregon Join Date: 09/10/2008 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 480 Rally Car: Nada |
nope he kept the lower bars and watts link stock, just ditched the uppers in favor for the 3rd link. i emailed him a few times when i was thinking about doing that to my other one, but he nor anyone else could could ever give me real answers on bar length or angles so i ditched the idea for the time being. "Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty" |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Infallible Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Fawk! Just make the two uppers as long as will fit, right up the the seat back. Worked for so geezer named millen a long time ago, oughter work today.. "A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow" John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
mellow65 Oliver Klozoff Junior Moderator Location: Oregon Join Date: 09/10/2008 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 480 Rally Car: Nada |
no ones arguing longer uppers, but can you tell me what angle difference between the upper and lower bars would be a good place to start? "Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty" |
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