Toe settings for FWD rally?

I am gettiing some alignment done before the next event. Car is FWD Neon with a welded diff. I am planning on running zero toe in the rear and a bit of toe-out (.25"-.30" in the front. My theory is that a little toe-out will reduce understeer.

Anybody see anything wrong with this?

Leave the toe at 0 or at least a hair toe in actually. If you want to balance out there car, alingment should be it. Raise the rear a bit more than the front and it'll rotate better.

1)


2) searching is hard: http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41041

thanks, Aaron. I just put two and two together and figured out you were Whizbang Rally on FB. I saw your post today.

I found this link discussing suspension settings, it seems pretty accurate. I am looking for good turn-in to negate a bit of understeer, hence the slight tow-out.

http://www.se-r.net/car_info/suspension_tuning.html

Mike Kojima vs. M Sport/Ford WRC development team...

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SeanP
thanks, Aaron. I just put two and two together and figured out you were Whizbang Rally on FB. I saw your post today.

Ummm, nope.
I do know the fellas behind Whizbang (and, they both post here), but I am not them. (Nor are they I.)

All I can really add to the discussion is my own personal cone-squishing experience.
(All of this is in a CRX/Civic with stock springs, stock/gr2/bilstein hds, softest sway bar up front, no rear sway, used r-comps on pavement, rally tires in the dirt)
First two years of autocrossing/rallycrossing, I ran something like 1/16-1/8" toe out up front, 0 toe in the rear. car was pretty loose, while I never really had an issue getting the car to turn in, I really had to be careful in slaloms to keep the car from spinning.
More recently (have only rallycrossed on this setup), I've been running 0 toe up front, ~1/16" toe IN out back. Much more controllable through slaloms, still no real problem w/ turn in - maybe not quite as well, but not really noticeable to my no-talent self.

If I was really worried about autocrossing, I'd definitely run the aggressive, loose setup - since I'm only worried about getting a single fast run, it doesn't matter if I occasionally lose the car through the slalom, etc. Fine tuning the car to potentially gain that last 0.01s is acceptable - there's really zero consequences (in terms of results or property damage) if I screw up.

For grass-o-cross, I'm turning better results with a more conservative setup - since every run counts, giving up 0.01s or even 0.1s on most runs is worthwhile if it means I'm not spinning and dropping 10+s.

My thoughts are the same for stage - go conservative with the alignment to start, and if I'm having problems with turn-in, look at some of my other options (sway bars, damper valving, spring rates, tire pressures) first. If I get to the point where low tire pressure and soft springs on the front don't help turn-in, _then_ maybe look at a more 'aggressive' alignment.

Quote
NoCoast
Mike Kojima vs. M Sport/Ford WRC development team...

Actually that was still the boys at Boreham in Essex...

But what the fawk do they know, huh!!!???
A buncha minging Pommie bastids driving at WRC level???

What does that prove??

I know Golves, the great Opel Kadett GSI, that F2 fwd Escort, Saab 900, Saab 99, and my own beloved Saab 96 all go toe -in, and I've had disbelieving guys get out of my car and demand to see the axles going to the front wheels since their ride was does mostly sideays BUT NONE OF THAT IS ON THE INTRA-WEBS therefore its OLD washed up info.

This guy write for SPORT COMPACT CAR, Grant! Wake up! get with the new millennium!

You're probably gonna come back with some snide comments like "Needs Moar Lead Foot Booting or sumpin wise-assey..

Ya know what lets lookl at some good FWD driving and see if we can discern any clues to driving sideways, whadday say Grant?
Lets look for R-a-g-n-o.....
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Gawddamn mang did ya see that grant? Fawk me study that stuff, and fawkin live and learn..
Yep obviously toe out is the key, that's what I see. What else could we possibly conclude?

I'm like all humbled....I admit I was wrong.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
Cosworth
Leave the toe at 0 or at least a hair toe in actually. If you want to balance out there car, alingment should be it. Raise the rear a bit more than the front and it'll rotate better.

This. It's how I always ran the Omni with a welded diff. Understeer was never an issue.

No comment:

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
SeanP
thanks, Aaron. I just put two and two together and figured out you were Whizbang Rally on FB. I saw your post today.

Ok, now I can see why you might get that impression. (No FB for me at work)

There's lots more where that came from - http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,4777,page=1

Golf Group A specs discussed here:

http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,7304,7313

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hoche
Golf Group A specs discussed here:

http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,7304,7313

You trollin, mang?
The guy clearly stated he has his answer from the journalist dooood.
You trying to make problems?
Oh yeah?
OH YEAH!!!??
Come over here and say Zat.

I dare you to watch some Ragnotti. I double dog dare ya!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Bah, a frog in a frog car.

What the hell does he know?

If he's any good, why isn't he in the X-Games?

huh?

Huh?

HUH?

Got the car back from alignment. Came out with a RCH of front toe-out (deferring to prior owner/driver's advice). Of course the car came back with a leaky coilover when it was fine the night before when I put the tires on and drove the car 1 mile to the shop.

Quote
hoche
Bah, a frog in a frog car.

What the hell does he know?

If he's any good, why isn't he in the X-Games?

huh?

Huh?

HUH?

HA! Hex games, you call grown men masturbating in front of pre-teen pimple squeezers all high on Red Bull doing antics with some cars at low speed, you call that driving?

Ragnotti can drive and the sole reason he can drive that good is cause he has TOE OUT!
[que choir up]


Ha!
Do you want me to taunt you with more vids?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.