Toe settings for FWD rally?
Posted by SeanP
Derek Bottles Professional Moderator Location: Lopez Island/ Seattle WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 853 Rally Car: Past: 323, RX2, GTI. Next up M3 ? |
Paulinho Ferreira Super Moderator Location: Charlotte, NC Join Date: 03/15/2007 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 721 Rally Car: Honda Civic |
Aaron Luptak Professional Moderator Location: SLC Join Date: 02/15/2008 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 776 Rally Car: Civic... |
John Vanlandingham Professional Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Paulinho Ferreira Super Moderator Location: Charlotte, NC Join Date: 03/15/2007 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 721 Rally Car: Honda Civic |
Brian Klausen Senior Moderator Location: Denmark Join Date: 03/21/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 388 Rally Car: VW Golf GTi 16V |
A C2 is about 2 inches long - so adding stability must be top priority  .
I run a tad toe in on my Golf Mk 2 as well - it has ended up with toe out on occasion after smacking into odd things - and while it rotates very well, it is also well scary at higher speeds (70ish mph and above). And as Derek says, it rotates just fine with toe in as long as it's DRIVEN. It didn't previously - but removing the lame front ARB, after fitting the Quaife ATB diff, has proved it to be more than willing to rotate. Conclusion: you need to go fast to make the car rotate (and to win) - to want to go fast you want stability - to get stability you want toe in. So in the in end: to make the car rotate (and win) you need toe in... (maybe slightly simplistic, but never the less... I know I'm much faster with toe in than out...) Brgrds Brian  Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2011 08:02AM by wildert. |
John Vanlandingham Professional Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Tack, drengen... John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Alex Rademacher Mod Moderator Location: Reno,nv Join Date: 09/10/2007 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 686 Rally Car: 93 GC with an 01 RS swap! |
I noticed when i first started rallying, i needed help getting the car to rotate. Now i just want it more stable.
I think if you want to develop yourself as a driver, its great to get experience with different setups. drive one rally with your car setup to over steer (hopefully one with out very very high speeds) , and one setup to under steer . both experiences can improve you as a driver. focus on driving what you have, to the best of your ability, rather than tuning the car to fit your style of driving. I tried seed 9 with a rear sway bar last year. car was very loose, and it was slowing me down. driving through the corners if i hit a bump the car would start to drift, but i couldn't really predict it so i ended up driving tidy and under the limit for sure. i disconnected the rear sway bar at the mid server and the car tightened up a lot, enough to have steady state under steer, the result? i ended up driving a lot more sideways through the corners, because the car became predictable and easier to handle (for me)
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Grant Hughes Elite Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
Through all four corners? |
Alex Rademacher Mod Moderator Location: Reno,nv Join Date: 09/10/2007 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 686 Rally Car: 93 GC with an 01 RS swap! |
Grant Hughes Elite Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
I never even drove it. I looked at stage maps and withdrew.
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Rob Senior Moderator Location: LI, NY Join Date: 09/25/2010 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 629 Rally Car: None, anymore. |
Just as a quick note- Toe out= quicker turn in, then earlier tendancy to 'break away' and understeer Toe in= More sluggish turn in, but less tendancy to understeer and more warning before 'break away' understeer. a nice turn in feeling is not equal to grip up front This is from my old Autocross notes, for a FWD car (focus SVT) on the pavement at Nassau coliseum that is nasty, sandy, torn up w/ large cracks. As close to offroad as Autocross gets probably. So take it with a grain of salt... Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2011 02:27AM by BobOfTheFuture. |
in the front. My theory is that a little toe-out will reduce understeer.
Brian Klausen Senior Moderator Location: Denmark Join Date: 03/21/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 388 Rally Car: VW Golf GTi 16V |
Oh how true and what an excellent point! And then add the "oh-crap-it's-all-over-the-place"-feeling you get with toe out at higher speeds, and you got a recipe for something that wont be all that quick. Brgrds Brian
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Rob Senior Moderator Location: LI, NY Join Date: 09/25/2010 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 629 Rally Car: None, anymore. |
Yeah, on the highway, hitting some crowned pavement... 
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Brian Klausen Senior Moderator Location: Denmark Join Date: 03/21/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 388 Rally Car: VW Golf GTi 16V |
You don't even - in my experience - need that. Add a bit of power to the car (I have around 170 hp), semi-slicks (Yokohama A048's) and poly or nylon bushes all around - and you feel just about ANYTHING the car does. In my case it was plain scary going through a high speed corner at may around 60-70 mph, and accelerating - and then just letting go of the throttle. Car just felt like it wanted to point in a COMPLETELY opposite direction.... NOT funny in my experience... Brgrds Brian
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