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Getting rid of the brake booster

Posted by SeanP 
hoche
Michel Hoche-Mong
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Re: Getting rid of the brake booster
September 07, 2011 01:44AM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Serious, look in older Ford pick-ups. Painted black but this is what they are:

blah blah blah <image o' cans>

The biggest you can find. Like a juice can. drink the juice, use the can..$2.79

One of the cars I co-drove in years ago used a cheapo 5gal airtank as a vacuum reservoir. It was put in the trunk. I never drove the car so I don't know how effective it was. Heavier than John's juice-cans tho.
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SeanP
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Re: Getting rid of the brake booster
September 07, 2011 01:48AM
Quote
hoche
Quote
SeanP

[johnburke] I resemble that remark [/johnburke]

Careful there...there're two Jo(h)n Burkes in southwest rallying. One is a co-driver who spells his name with an "h" and hasn't been seen at events in awhile. The other is a dork with a Subaru who I won't name because he's a nice guy and I consider him a good friend but he spells his name without an "h" and he hates bumpers for some reason.

Of course, when he pops on he's going to point out that I DNF'ed four stages before he did, but hey.

Hahaha. I typo'd that. My co-driver met the other Mr. SoCal Burke in Chuck Wilson's RV in Gorman and apparently he felt the Burke name was being sullied by the sheer number of DNF's posted by our other friend, NorCal Burke. Either way, I can poke some fun, right?
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wildert
Brian Klausen
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Re: Getting rid of the brake booster
September 07, 2011 08:07AM
Quote
SeanP
I am liking the left foot braking, it works for my underpowered rig and modulating as such seems pretty helpful.

Erhm... please explain to me how you need "modulation" in an underpowered rig? Normally resorting to modulating through left foot braking is for high power beasts - possibly very peaky N/A-engines or turbo'd engines with tonnes of lag.
Being low on power does not - in my oppinion anyway - call for modulation in any way - at all...
What it does call for is carrying the absolute highest amount of speed through a corner, and the recipe for that is getting lines and general cornering techniques right - including braking BEFORE the corner... not THROUGH (and on the way out) of the corner.

I know you've taken a lot of flack for this LFB stuff and your limited experience - and this may be conceived as even more flack. But right now you're not making a lot of sense to even me.



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Brian

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john vanlandingham
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Re: Getting rid of the brake booster
September 07, 2011 09:52AM
Quote
wildert
Quote
SeanP
I am liking the left foot braking, it works for my underpowered rig and modulating as such seems pretty helpful.

Erhm... please explain to me how you need "modulation" in an underpowered rig? Normally resorting to modulating through left foot braking is for high power beasts - possibly very peaky N/A-engines or turbo'd engines with tonnes of lag.
Being low on power does not - in my oppinion anyway - call for modulation in any way - at all...
What it does call for is carrying the absolute highest amount of speed through a corner, and the recipe for that is getting lines and general cornering techniques right - including braking BEFORE the corner... not THROUGH (and on the way out) of the corner.

I know you've taken a lot of flack for this LFB stuff and your limited experience - and this may be conceived as even more flack. But right now you're not making a lot of sense to even me.

I think the amount of flack he received was very well modulated flack...I would go so far to say it was Left Finger Flack. I am absolutely convince of the indispensability of Left Finger Flacking.drinking smiley

And thank you again for your level headed, well modulated flack hear on the exact points I looked at, shook my head and seeing the previous attempts to help this guy with his were totally missed and resulting is such absurd reactions...
Just why the hell is it that you, a Dansk bonde driving a Golf seem to catch suggestions, nuance and even humor?confused smiley
Is my engleski that bad?winking smiley



John Vanlandingham
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Gravity Fed
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Re: Getting rid of the brake booster
September 07, 2011 10:03AM
im in need of a new master cyclinder for the larger brakes anyway (ive tried the stock one on this setup before and its just doesnt push enough fluid for larger brakes...). Anyway, I also dont want to buy another booster for the master cyclinder so perhaps ill do it properly....
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Cosworth
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Re: Getting rid of the brake booster
September 07, 2011 10:42AM
Quote
Gravity Fed
(ive tried the stock one on this setup before and its just doesnt push enough fluid for larger brakes...)..
Explain because unless you put truck calipers on there, there's no way a stock master will be too small for ANY caliper currently available.
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Jon Burke
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Re: Getting rid of the brake booster
September 07, 2011 12:01PM
Quote
SeanP
Quote
hoche
Quote
SeanP

[johnburke] I resemble that remark [/johnburke]

Careful there...there're two Jo(h)n Burkes in southwest rallying. One is a co-driver who spells his name with an "h" and hasn't been seen at events in awhile. The other is a dork with a Subaru who I won't name because he's a nice guy and I consider him a good friend but he spells his name without an "h" and he hates bumpers for some reason.

Of course, when he pops on he's going to point out that I DNF'ed four stages before he did, but hey.

Hahaha. I typo'd that. My co-driver met the other Mr. SoCal Burke in Chuck Wilson's RV in Gorman and apparently he felt the Burke name was being sullied by the sheer number of DNF's posted by our other friend, NorCal Burke. Either way, I can poke some fun, right?

meh. that other Burke is a co-driver....as a co-driver, I have an excellent finishing record winking smiley
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SeanP
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Re: Getting rid of the brake booster
September 07, 2011 12:34PM
Quote
wildert
Quote
SeanP
I am liking the left foot braking, it works for my underpowered rig and modulating as such seems pretty helpful.

Erhm... please explain to me how you need "modulation" in an underpowered rig? Normally resorting to modulating through left foot braking is for high power beasts - possibly very peaky N/A-engines or turbo'd engines with tonnes of lag.
Being low on power does not - in my oppinion anyway - call for modulation in any way - at all...
What it does call for is carrying the absolute highest amount of speed through a corner, and the recipe for that is getting lines and general cornering techniques right - including braking BEFORE the corner... not THROUGH (and on the way out) of the corner.

I know you've taken a lot of flack for this LFB stuff and your limited experience - and this may be conceived as even more flack. But right now you're not making a lot of sense to even me.

Here's my thoughts on the matter: Carrying as much speed through a corner depends on a lot of variables, which can change from corner to corner, especially the surface. Basically it's all throttle and brake which determines the angle of the corner. Needing a tighter corner would dictate a little more brake and a little less throttle to give more bite to the steering wheels and to rotate the car. If your throttle is connected via vacuum to the amount of brake pressure you have, less throttle means less brake assist. Changing the brake assist will change the feel of the brakes and make trail braking tough to "modulate". Yep, that's what I mean by modulate.

Now maybe the technique is to keep the engine/throttle pinned all throughout and just ride the brakes to tighten the corner. Either way, when i do it right, it puts a smile on my face and I know that it is a proven technique to carry speed. I spent three days having it explained to me in a totally different car and having it make sense in my own car is a good thing.

Y'all can pile on the newbie for wanting to climb up that steep ladder as fast as the rungs appear. For those that want to share their tech, thanks for the help.
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A1337STI
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Re: Getting rid of the brake booster
September 07, 2011 12:48PM
I love the idea of a big can for a vacuum reservoir! Brilliant. but you need to pick the right type of canned substance. I think pineapple is tasty, but I'm mildly allergic to it, so if i used a pineapple can for my reservoir i might become mildly allergic to braking... so in my case I'd probably go with a big tomato can as i love spaghetti , chili , pizza ... mmm pizza

Sean the easiest, easiest way to figure out how to corner is to make sure are WOT about 1 car length before the apex, with out any braking. you should be able to stand on the gas and with steering alone (hopefully very little) stay on the road. if you had to lift off the gas or mix in some braking to stay on the road you entered the corner to fast.

if you had to 'steer' to the outside of the road , instead of physics forcing you out, you entered too slow.

if you like to aim down the straight away with a big scandy, LFB + gas, Ebrake, or bouncing off a berm... doesn't matter much as long as you are mostly pointed the correct direction (down the straight away) nail your apex, and stand on the gas the whole way out.

well maybe don't try the berm bounce, i always seem to get a flat or slow leak doing that one ...

learn that and you will be cornering at least "good" maybe not perfect, maybe not great, but good. and pretty good, is pretty darn good!
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wildert
Brian Klausen
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Re: Getting rid of the brake booster
September 07, 2011 01:32PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
And thank you again for your level headed, well modulated flack hear on the exact points I looked at, shook my head and seeing the previous attempts to help this guy with his were totally missed and resulting is such absurd reactions...
Just why the hell is it that you, a Dansk bonde driving a Golf seem to catch suggestions, nuance and even humor?confused smiley
Is my engleski that bad?winking smiley

Weeell.... I have a pretty extensive theory on that...
First of all, Danes tend to be pretty good at English compared to other Europeans (with the obvious exception of those guys that the language came from). We don't audio dub movies, and since there's only about 5.5 million of us, national television production is fairly limited, thus we watch a lot of foreign television shows and programmes. Most of that (95% or more) is in the English language. Thus, we hear a LOT of spoken English every single day. Add to that, the low number of Danes, and we NEED to know other languages... Nobody except Danes know the throat disease called Danish...
Finally as a nation we don't have rules or a culture of making up our own "Danified" versions of foreign words. Typically this happens with technical terms and the likes in Norway and particularly Iceland, as well as a lot of other European countries. In Danish a drive thru, is a drive thru... plain and simple...
And finally... As far as even Danes go, I'm actually pretty good at English.
So language-wise we have a prettyy good starting point...

Then add that Danish humor and communication in general is all about tounge in cheek, nuances, suggestions etc...

And THEN add that I think that you are not like most Americans. Not like the ones I've met and worked with over the years anyway. You are much more in tune with that whole tongue in cheek thing, and in my experience that is REALLY hard for most foreigners to "get". I guess that you picked it up while living over here, and maybe you have a nack for it to begin with... Anyway... I think you're kinda like a foreigner in your own country smiling smiley

That, and the fact that I'm just plain awesome winking smiley



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Brian

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Mad Matt F
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Re: Getting rid of the brake booster
September 07, 2011 01:38PM
As an avid lurker, and an experienced LFB'r (in the Justy with its lack of a centre diff, oh and lack of power, who really needs brakes?), I am confused by the following statement...


Quote
SeanP
If your throttle is connected via vacuum to the amount of brake pressure you have, less throttle means less brake assist.

Doesn't WOT mean you would have less vacuum, and therefore the whole issue would be loss of brake assist when WOT...

Excuse my ignoramance!

Matt

Er...and if this is always such an issue why not steal a vacuum pump from a diesel? My old Hino had a nice little pump and reservoir...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2011 01:45PM by Mad Matt F.
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wildert
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Re: Getting rid of the brake booster
September 07, 2011 01:39PM
Quote
SeanP
Here's my thoughts on the matter: Carrying as much speed through a corner depends on a lot of variables, which can change from corner to corner, especially the surface. Basically it's all throttle and brake which determines the angle of the corner. Needing a tighter corner would dictate a little more brake and a little less throttle to give more bite to the steering wheels and to rotate the car. If your throttle is connected via vacuum to the amount of brake pressure you have, less throttle means less brake assist. Changing the brake assist will change the feel of the brakes and make trail braking tough to "modulate". Yep, that's what I mean by modulate.

Now maybe the technique is to keep the engine/throttle pinned all throughout and just ride the brakes to tighten the corner. Either way, when i do it right, it puts a smile on my face and I know that it is a proven technique to carry speed. I spent three days having it explained to me in a totally different car and having it make sense in my own car is a good thing.

Y'all can pile on the newbie for wanting to climb up that steep ladder as fast as the rungs appear. For those that want to share their tech, thanks for the help.

But you're sorta missing the point... I know what you meant by modulating. My point is that modulation is not needed in a low powered rig... It just makes a low HP car even slower... And you're much better off learning cornering "right"...
Modulating withe your right foot on the gas pedal is much easier AND faster in a low power car. Right now you're most likely just covering up flaws in the basic techniques, and not being very fast about it ... AND picking up bad habits...

But it's a free country I hear... All up to you...



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wildert
Brian Klausen
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Re: Getting rid of the brake booster
September 07, 2011 01:41PM
Quote
Mad Matt F
As an avid lurker, and an experienced LFB'r (in the Justy with its lack of a centre diff, oh and lack of power, who needs brakes?), I am confused by the following statment...


Quote
SeanP
If your throttle is connected via vacuum to the amount of brake pressure you have, less throttle means less brake assist.

Doesn't WOT mean you would have less vacuum, and therefore the whole issue would be loss of brake assist when WOT...

Excuse my ingnoramance!

Matt

It does... It doesn't change Sean's point of reason though. The point being inconsistent brake feel depending on throttle level.



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Brian

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Mad Matt F
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Re: Getting rid of the brake booster
September 07, 2011 01:46PM
Ah, mais oui, just making sure I understand the situation.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Getting rid of the brake booster
September 07, 2011 01:53PM
Quote
Mad Matt F
As an avid lurker, and an experienced LFB'r (in the Justy with its lack of a centre diff, oh and lack of power, who really needs brakes?), I am confused by the following statement...


Quote
SeanP
If your throttle is connected via vacuum to the amount of brake pressure you have, less throttle means less brake assist.

Doesn't WOT mean you would have less vacuum, and therefore the whole issue would be loss of brake assist when WOT...

Excuse my ignoramance!

Matt

Er...and if this is always such an issue why not steal a vacuum pump from a diesel? My old Hino had a nice little pump and reservoir...

Matt I thought i had scolded you before about using logic and reasoning and here you go again. And this time to make matters worse you're throwing around and confusing the issue with facts and reality....

Are you trying to help or do you need another thrashing?

Don't make me put on the 'hard gloves'. eye popping smiley



John Vanlandingham
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CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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