I have had a two people in recent months selling me on the benefits of running with no engine-assisted brake booster. Primarily, brake pressure will remain constant no matter the engine speed.

So in my thoughts around accompishing this, does the implemetation need to be any more involved than pulling the vacuum line and plugging it? A friend running a neon in rally back east sent me a note about redrilling the pivot point on the brake pedal assy to get more leverage in order to make up for the lack of assist. I would imaging running a higher volume master cylinder would do the same. I run a bias valve so I am not too worried about trial-and-error in balancing the brakes.

Thoughts?

Sean

Don't just pull the vacuum line off of it and plug it.

Scott Wilburn did the same thing at Sandblast year and blew the little bit of hose off of his manifold and he tried to bodge it and ended up blowing up the engine from a jacked up fuel/air mixture.

If you're going to do it, remove the hose and actually (properly) plug off the manifold if you can.

Most that I have seen remove the booster completely.

Changing to a master with a larger piston will make the pedal firmer, not softer.

I found that right around 6:1 pedal ratio worked well for my manual dual master setup.

Get some good pads, and that will ease the pedal effort also.

Quote
phlat65
I found that right around 6:1 pedal ratio worked well for my manual dual master setup.

I have no booster in either the BMW or Evo. The Evo we just removed the booster and bolted a dual master box to the firewall, leaving the pedal ratio the same. The BMW uses 6:1 floor mounted pedals. The 6:1 ratio pedals rock, you don't feel like you're having to muscle the car to full lockup, whereas the Evo you really have to push hard.

Dave

Quote
DaveK

Quote
phlat65
I found that right around 6:1 pedal ratio worked well for my manual dual master setup.

I have no booster in either the BMW or Evo. The Evo we just removed the booster and bolted a dual master box to the firewall, leaving the pedal ratio the same. The BMW uses 6:1 floor mounted pedals. The 6:1 ratio pedals rock, you don't feel like you're having to muscle the car to full lockup, whereas the Evo you really have to push hard.

Dave

Which foot? Do you point your toes in or out?
Oxfords or pointy toed?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Sean, you've got a perfectly good working car and not-very-many events under your belt. If you like fiddling with your car you can worry about taking out the booster and plugging the line, but frankly I'd recommend just running 'er as-is for awhile longer.

FWIW, I run with a booster, and yeah, it annoys me sometimes. But in my mind, a working car that you can make go fast trumps a broken car with all the bling-bling.

You only need to ditch the booster IF you're big on the left foot braking. If not then you will never encounter any loss of vacum and inconsistent pedal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2011 03:29PM by Cosworth.

Quote
Cosworth
You only need to ditch the booster is you're big on the left foot braking. If not then you will never encounter any loss of vacum and inconsistent pedal.

Gawddam Paulinho. Get with the times!!!!!! It's 2011 in case you haddn't noticed gawddam Pork-and-Cheese!
Let me set uou clear:
"I am convinced of the indispensability of left foot braking "

Jeebus!
Her i'll try to make it clearer!
Estou convencido da indispensabilidade do pé esquerdo de frenagem
man that is both similar and dissimilar to your "neighbors" to the East, huh?
Let's see:
Estoy convencido de la indispensabilidad de pie izquierdo de frenado

Jeeze looking at those no wonder I found French easier, look at French and compare;
Je suis convaincu du caractère indispensable de freinage pied gauche

Way simpler and closer to Engleski.
Anyway got the pict-chooore?
LFB is indispensable, you should be convinced of that too...

So the old 'loss of vacuum" is a certainty. And who could possibly add another in line one way valve and an additional say No1 soup can as a reservoir?

Pour suggérer ce qui est totalement folle putain, qui a déjà la tête d'une telle absurdité?

So wake up! Get with the times and learn!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
Cosworth
You only need to ditch the booster is you're big on the left foot braking. If not then you will never encounter any loss of vacum and inconsistent pedal.

Gawddam Paulinho. Get with the times!!!!!! It's 2011 in case you haddn't noticed gawddam Pork-and-Cheese!
Let me set uou clear:
"I am convinced of the indispensability of left foot braking "

Jeebus!
Her i'll try to make it clearer!
Estou convencido da indispensabilidade do pé esquerdo de frenagem
man that is both similar and dissimilar to your "neighbors" to the East, huh?
Let's see:
Estoy convencido de la indispensabilidad de pie izquierdo de frenado

Jeeze looking at those no wonder I found French easier, look at French and compare;
Je suis convaincu du caractère indispensable de freinage pied gauche

Way simpler and closer to Engleski.
Anyway got the pict-chooore?
LFB is indispensable, you should be convinced of that too...

So the old 'loss of vacuum" is a certainty. And who could possibly add another in line one way valve and an additional say No1 soup can as a reservoir?

Pour suggérer ce qui est totalement folle putain, qui a déjà la tête d'une telle absurdité?

So wake up! Get with the times and learn!

Dude, WTF... you got too much time on your hands to type all that crap. I need to send you some machine work for hats and brackets to keep you busy amigo.

And the stuff you wrote has bad grammer in both Português and Español. But Iºm sure you were just testing me

Anyways, all I said was that he only looses vacum if he is big on left foot braking, not all peeps are into it, even though its the way of the fast and enlightened.

Quote
Cosworth


And the stuff you wrote has bad grammer in both Português and Español. But Iºm sure you were just testing me

Anyways, all I said was that he only looses vacum if he is big on left foot braking, not all peeps are into it, even though its the way of the fast and enlightened.

Oh yeah!!!?? Well I dun't speak those, so HA! I said the French was easier!

And ya Noes zwat? I dun't leff foot brake and I have problems losing vaccum and my poor motor make almost no wacume at idle anysways.

(Did ya notice the golden tip baked into the silliness?)

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

What is the concensus on a vacuum reservoir? Seems like an easy answer to keep vacuum up

Like so: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G1464/

---

-Jason

Quote
hoche
But in my mind, a working car that you can make go fast trumps a broken car with all the bling-bling.

[johnburke] I resemble that remark [/johnburke]

I have a long history of tinkering with my cars, so this is S.O.P for me. I know that if I do undertake this, i will probably end up with a custom titanium pedal box and adjustable ratio pedals, so you do make a good point about KISS

I am liking the left foot braking, it works for my underpowered rig and modulating as such seems pretty helpful.

Quote
mack73
What is the concensus on a vacuum reservoir? Seems like an easy answer to keep vacuum up

Like so: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G1464/

Serious, look in older Ford pick-ups. Painted black but this is what they are:


The biggest you can find. Like a juice can. drink the juice, use the can..$2.79

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
SeanP

[johnburke] I resemble that remark [/johnburke]

Careful there...there're two Jo(h)n Burkes in southwest rallying. One is a co-driver who spells his name with an "h" and hasn't been seen at events in awhile. The other is a dork with a Subaru who I won't name because he's a nice guy and I consider him a good friend but he spells his name without an "h" and he hates bumpers for some reason.

Of course, when he pops on he's going to point out that I DNF'ed four stages before he did, but hey.