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Need coilovers for Audi 90 rally build. Please help!

Posted by DriverJGits 
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aj_johnson
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aj_johnson
Re: Need coilovers for Audi 90 rally build. Please help!
September 23, 2011 03:08PM
and that really nice looking turn around 0:40 winking smiley
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Doivi Clarkinen
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Doivi Clarkinen
Re: Need coilovers for Audi 90 rally build. Please help!
September 23, 2011 06:57PM
Quote
heymagic
Just to clarify..I never cleverly left out Jardevall. He wasn't around when I rallied and I've only seen him drive AWD Mitsus. I haven't a clue as to his 2wd capabilities, nor is it germane to the thread actually.

Lou Beck in a very stock Focus pretty well kicked Adams Toyota to the curb at Mt.Hood. Charles Buren pretty much kicked all the 2wd to the curb at several events. Mark Qvale consistantly beat much more powerful RWD cars in his Dodge (even the non-turbod one) . Coast to coast since the late 80s we've seen fast FWD results on mild spec cars. There is an ass for every saddle.

To be competitive in the US for the last 25 years or more required nothing more than a good driver, moderate skills and ANY platform that didn't break down regularly. RWD is not needed to be competitve and that is just the way it is. Can they be made stronger for cheaper..yup. Will that automatically quarantee a win..nope.

If RWD was all the shit then Audi, Peugot, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Citroen, Lancia would have pursued that platform. It isn't and they didn't. I think a mediocre driver will show better results in a good FWD than a RWD. I can't remember the last event I was at that a RWD impressed me. Burrus at DooWops, Wimpey at Idaho...pretty F'n impressive. Since I was a pretty fast guy in a RWD that totally sucked in FWD , I have an even greater appreciation for their skills...and I hate VWs with a passion. My old fire suit still has the bunny with a red slash thru it patch....

So going by results nowadays then everyone should build an AWD car....

This makes me chuckle because back when I first started rallying and you were driving regularly, Gene, 90% of the cars in the local regional rallies were RWD. You would get the occasional VW Rabbit, Dodge Omni, or SAAB but those were the oddballs. Only rich national competitors had AWDs, they were only just beginning to seep into Divisional rallies around 1989. Anyway, even at the time I was kind of surprised at the prevailing opinion I was getting from my peers running RWD cars when I bought Qvale's Omni. The opinion being that FWD sucks, it just understeers all the time, it's so hard to drive, it's not as much fun as RWD, you'll never be as fast, etc. I seem to remember you shared that opinion at the time, probably influenced with your experience with the Ford Fiasco. It's kind of funny how popular opinion has apparently switched and now the young guys seem to think RWD is really hard to drive and isn't as fast as FWD.
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BJosephD
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Re: Need coilovers for Audi 90 rally build. Please help!
September 23, 2011 08:08PM
We could all go RWD or FWD and still be happy to be on the stages. my observation is we have less options today for rear drive platforms then Gene or JVL grew accustomed to. FWD is currently the norm, someday our kids will be arguing weather XX or YY is faster. Whatever the case may be fun comes second.
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heymagic
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heymagic
Re: Need coilovers for Audi 90 rally build. Please help!
September 23, 2011 08:44PM
Quote
Doivi Clarkinen
Quote
heymagic
Just to clarify..I never cleverly left out Jardevall. He wasn't around when I rallied and I've only seen him drive AWD Mitsus. I haven't a clue as to his 2wd capabilities, nor is it germane to the thread actually.

Lou Beck in a very stock Focus pretty well kicked Adams Toyota to the curb at Mt.Hood. Charles Buren pretty much kicked all the 2wd to the curb at several events. Mark Qvale consistantly beat much more powerful RWD cars in his Dodge (even the non-turbod one) . Coast to coast since the late 80s we've seen fast FWD results on mild spec cars. There is an ass for every saddle.

To be competitive in the US for the last 25 years or more required nothing more than a good driver, moderate skills and ANY platform that didn't break down regularly. RWD is not needed to be competitve and that is just the way it is. Can they be made stronger for cheaper..yup. Will that automatically quarantee a win..nope.

If RWD was all the shit then Audi, Peugot, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Citroen, Lancia would have pursued that platform. It isn't and they didn't. I think a mediocre driver will show better results in a good FWD than a RWD. I can't remember the last event I was at that a RWD impressed me. Burrus at DooWops, Wimpey at Idaho...pretty F'n impressive. Since I was a pretty fast guy in a RWD that totally sucked in FWD , I have an even greater appreciation for their skills...and I hate VWs with a passion. My old fire suit still has the bunny with a red slash thru it patch....

So going by results nowadays then everyone should build an AWD car....

This makes me chuckle because back when I first started rallying and you were driving regularly, Gene, 90% of the cars in the local regional rallies were RWD. You would get the occasional VW Rabbit, Dodge Omni, or SAAB but those were the oddballs. Only rich national competitors had AWDs, they were only just beginning to seep into Divisional rallies around 1989. Anyway, even at the time I was kind of surprised at the prevailing opinion I was getting from my peers running RWD cars when I bought Qvale's Omni. The opinion being that FWD sucks, it just understeers all the time, it's so hard to drive, it's not as much fun as RWD, you'll never be as fast, etc. I seem to remember you shared that opinion at the time, probably influenced with your experience with the Ford Fiasco. It's kind of funny how popular opinion has apparently switched and now the young guys seem to think RWD is really hard to drive and isn't as fast as FWD.


I think you're 100% correct. I grew up with RWD, there were no FWD cars back then. I drove the Ford Fester..not so good, Kathy Moores Honda, just ok but certainly not fast. I do pretty well on a tarmac course in FWD but all of my instincts are for RWD actions and reactions. There were some quick guys even then in FWD. Locally Sam and Sean were darned quick, Qvale was stupid fast, you did ok, Koji and Hartmann pretty good also. So even then it was getting apparent the times they were a changing. Nowadays with a wee bit more power in all cars and a massive reduction in RWD candidates, FWD becomes the standard for most.

If you can drive a stage truly flat out without mistakes, not thinking about your actions then you are in the right platform for you.


BUT I'm not proclaiming either one is the theoretical bestest..just agreeing with Josh that a FWD is certainly capable of being competitive in rally in the US. Just look how well ACP does in that under developement Scion that is still kind of raw.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2011 08:49PM by heymagic.
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vbares
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Re: Need coilovers for Audi 90 rally build. Please help!
September 23, 2011 10:04PM
a_j - the only reason to rally/compete with an audi on anything but tarmac is 'cause you love the make...

If you're into driving, as opposed to custom making shit, then race something other than an Audi...if you dig making custom shit - then go for it smiling smiley

CIS is finiky, electrics blow and the handling/geometry/weight distro, compared to some of the modern cars, make for some interesting driving styles and its really hard to be competitive - they are strong in most areas though...I like it, but...I've not driven this year sad smiley
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aj_johnson
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aj_johnson
Re: Need coilovers for Audi 90 rally build. Please help!
September 23, 2011 10:58PM
Quote
vbares
a_j - the only reason to rally/compete with an audi on anything but tarmac is 'cause you love the make...

If you're into driving, as opposed to custom making shit, then race something other than an Audi...if you dig making custom shit - then go for it smiling smiley

CIS is finiky, electrics blow and the handling/geometry/weight distro, compared to some of the modern cars, make for some interesting driving styles and its really hard to be competitive - they are strong in most areas though...I like it, but...I've not driven this year sad smiley

Eh I like the cis systems on the NA motors. Works great for what it is. I agree on the driving style and kept quiet about the competitive part. Can't wait to get mine on dirt. Sent you a PM by the way.
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sidewaez
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Re: Need coilovers for Audi 90 rally build. Please help!
October 06, 2011 03:06PM
sorry to get off topic here, I have a friend that needs a set of those JVAB coilovers for her Audi 90 rally car before Big White, any chance you could make that happen? I'll have her call you...
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john vanlandingham
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john vanlandingham
Re: Need coilovers for Audi 90 rally build. Please help!
October 06, 2011 03:08PM
Quote
sidewaez
sorry to get off topic here, I have a friend that needs a set of those JVAB coilovers for her Audi 90 rally car before Big White, any chance you could make that happen? I'll have her call you...


Maybe, but I gotta see what it is.. IE same as Vittorio's or some weird stuff.


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aj_johnson
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Re: Need coilovers for Audi 90 rally build. Please help!
October 07, 2011 07:51AM
Should be same as vitorrio's/mine. I finally have a spare set of housings that are ready to ship if this person wants to split cost.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Need coilovers for Audi 90 rally build. Please help!
October 07, 2011 11:42AM
Quote
aj_johnson
Should be same as vitorrio's/mine. I finally have a spare set of housings that are ready to ship if this person wants to split cost.

Doooood you have two fronts?
It'd be good cause then I could harvest the ends where the tie rod ends poke thru with the taper, and incorporate that into the new part..

see?


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aj_johnson
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aj_johnson
Re: Need coilovers for Audi 90 rally build. Please help!
October 07, 2011 11:47AM
Yep, got two extra fronts and 2 extra rears. Rears are not two piece though, Hoping you might be able to come up with a fix for that at the same time.
two piece rears are available, just harder to come by. also, supposedly 2 piece fronts can be converted to rears, but it looks like more work than just converting the existing ones with a few welds.

Also, i will be moved back to spokane by the beginning of next month. Could just toss em on a greyhound if that helps.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2011 11:51AM by aj_johnson.
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sidewaez
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Re: Need coilovers for Audi 90 rally build. Please help!
October 07, 2011 03:25PM
it has been a PGT car so afaik it's all stock, stock Audi so I'm sure there is some weird stuff.
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vbares
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Re: Need coilovers for Audi 90 rally build. Please help!
October 07, 2011 09:11PM
JVL - very good chance its identical to mine. 2 piece from a 90 or a coupe...

BTW - my neighbor is an Audi nut as well - does nice work, but is a track guy. Has some interesting designs.

Again - not for off-road use! You gotta get the 50's from JVL...
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Need coilovers for Audi 90 rally build. Please help!
October 07, 2011 09:25PM
Quote
aj_johnson
Yep, got two extra fronts and 2 extra rears. Rears are not two piece though, Hoping you might be able to come up with a fix for that at the same time.
two piece rears are available, just harder to come by. also, supposedly 2 piece fronts can be converted to rears, but it looks like more work than just converting the existing ones with a few welds.

Also, i will be moved back to spokane by the beginning of next month. Could just toss em on a greyhound if that helps.

Muchachito, I studied the rears a lot.
I am 99.8% certain we can make the one piece rears or fronts into 2 piece.
By carving out the tubes and trimming back the metal stamping things, then welding in tubes in 2 places ( the spacing and size free really) and gussets we can easily make "fabricated" uprights. The we just make the ears off the tubes span the upright like normal.

A little extra work and the stampings can be narrowed a tad and the ears be same width as normal 2 piece---and it is same front and rear..

Thing is the things already are more troublesome than ordinary set ups since there are those fixed steering arms in front and carving things up in back takes straight time...Fairly easy but takes time. and youse knowez whats they says.....

It'd be REEEEEAAAAAALLLLLLLYYYY nice if I was gonna be making steering arms to know i should make 4 or 6 (spares!!! always have to have spares!!!!!)


John Vanlandingham
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aj_johnson
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aj_johnson
Re: Need coilovers for Audi 90 rally build. Please help!
October 08, 2011 04:20PM
Vittorio, Hayden does some marvelous things with cars. Truly a nut! What was involved the the two piece rear setup? I've finally found a two piece rear car, that I'm gonna snag stuff out of

John, if I understand you right, you took the idea right outta my head.

I'll keep some stock front and rear uprights for spares, Since you can't swap right front to left front, and I dont know if that stirring arm will interfere if plugged into the back.
unless you can rig up a removable steering arm doodad that would allow swapping sides?

I wish there was a way to do a bolt on arm that integrated into the mounts of the tube. I believe that would allow us to use subaru suspension stuffs with a bit of effort.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2011 04:23PM by aj_johnson.
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