Agree Josh. I've been back down on spring rates for raw newbs.

And Brian you're right about dun't get married to that car.

But! Since that is basicallya maz-dog or mazscort or Ex-dawg or whatever (Hey do me a flavor and flip those headlights side to side and right side up so it looks like the 323 it is., thanks) the only thing that makes a strut a "exsquirt-dawg is the spacing of the ears and the bolt holes spacing.

So wad the poor little thing up, whip the nice stuff off before the hulk hauler hauls the hulk.

Then say you get a new Whatever GLSXiT, change the ears.

Think..

And Josh is right, get the fronts first, then eventually get something in the rear. Plan medium term. All those fixed costs suck. But they'll suck way bigger donkey dicks if you blow out whatever junk you get 3rd stage of first event and all that tow, motel, entry etc is pissed away.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I dont think you should weld new brackets on those struts. Those have oil in them and Im not sure how well the weld will penetrate with the oil cooling the metal. If you turn the welder up you may burn threw and let the gas and oil out and now there junk. I would get on the JVL payment plan and get at least fronts made. You can always call Visa and ask for a credit increase!!

Quote
Josh Wimpey
Remember that the bump stop IS part of your total travel as it WILL compress to nearly nothing when you whack that rock, or stump, or ditch.... Therefore, your springs need to be long enough so that they do not bind before the bump stop is fully compressed. Therefore, 10" sprangs is too danged short.

I am sure JVL will make you just a set of fronts---the important end---just as he did for me back in 2003 and you can save some cash for now with some Bilsteins in back.

What is the weight of the car (front & rear if possible?)
I assume the fronts are struts like a VW so close to a 1:1 motion ratio. If the weight is similar to a Golf (i.e. about 2400lbs), I would run 225-250# sproings not 275-285#

Josh, with your logic i should look into 14" springs? i could see 12" fitting well. i ended up thinking 10" because the rule of thumb is travel x2 = spring length. i did not account for the bumps as part of the travel. iam not sure on the weight at this time but i bet a dollar it within 200 lbs of your golf.
john, was that a polite no thank you?
note i am not doubting the expertise that has chimed in. i thank you both. but honestly, i learn the hard way. i have to prove/disprove theories. besides i cant drive like j wimpey...

I totally agree with trying new ideas just giving my 2 pennies.

jeff,
the VW housings i am unsing have a removable insert. and they are from a MK2 VW so i have a few options on brands and grades. The bilstein HD's are cheap enough where i could bring a spare or two to a rally and may not ever need them. but for now i need to get more travel. my goal was to be able to convert the struts from rally to hill climb to track with a change of insert and spring combo.

I think 12" springs will be fine with 7" of stroke.

Quote
BJosephD
jeff,
the VW housings i am unsing have a removable insert. and they are from a MK2 VW so i have a few options on brands and grades. The bilstein HD's are cheap enough where i could bring a spare or two to a rally and may not ever need them. but for now i need to get more travel. my goal was to be able to convert the struts from rally to hill climb to track with a change of insert and spring combo.

The Bilsteins HD aren't that cheap. They are 160mm travel with an unusually long body to make up some OAL.

The JVAB inserts are anything I ask for and VWs usually get 190mm travel and a slightly shorter body for a good OAL.
The difference between "HD" and JVABs was to quote one of our local fast guys who is alsdo a real nice guy Tom Buress "Night and day difference having the longer travel.

So there is a small difference in cost but big advantage in fuction.
The second part of the problem is the thin wall tubes wityh lousy overlap between the body and the lower tube. That's important for longevity...

It is cheaper to do the right thing first rather than fawk around with the wrong thing, then you kill one and replace it and then another one dies and you have exceeded the cost of the Right Stuff.
Part of the difference has to be calculated the lousy performance of the broken ones, the entrys ruined, gas pissed aways, etc.

Click and Clack Magliotzzi have a saying and it is both smart and true;
The Stingy Man Pays the Most

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I didnt know they were removable. I would work with what you got then first. press on!!

Just reviewed first post.
350!!!!!!!!!

A full on Group A Escort Cosworth with the best drivers money could buy used a spring 13" long and a mid stroke rate of about 340 lb/in and weighed in at 2730 lbs..
Weight and particularly power has a big effect on how hard the car hits a bump. 50mph under hard acc is not the same as 50mph in coast. or under hard braking. Its all dynamic, mang.

For a car your size and weight and power I'd begin at now higher than 250 lb/in and a min of 12" long IF you have the "Long travel" springs or 13" with "barrel" springs...

And thats assuming a insert valved like the VW "HD" at 300/100

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
..... and weighed in at 2730 lbs..
And thats assuming a insert valved like the VW "HD" at 300/100

Agreed with John, that is nearly 400lbs more than our Golf so roughly 300# springs in 12+ inch lengths...

Quote
Josh Wimpey

Quote
john vanlandingham
..... and weighed in at 2730 lbs..
And thats assuming a insert valved like the VW "HD" at 300/100

Agreed with John, that is nearly 400lbs more than our Golf so roughly 300# springs in 12+ inch lengths...

Josh, been backing the rates down for rank---or otherwise sweet-smelling---newbs.

Been doing 275, and some guys, like the rwd cars seem to want even lower.

(not everybody is pushing as hard as you, Tom Burress or even what I am used to)(and power has a role in there too either from motor or motor+ final drive)

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I have a whole box of crappy springs that were given to me. 350,450 and 550 @ 8"!!! holy fawk. those (550) were the ones run with the Ledas the car came with, iam hoping it saw some track days with those kinds of rates. I currently have the car stored until i close on my house in 4 weeks. no big deal. i also have an email out to bilstein to see if the carry an insert like the one i want with a shorter body and same or more stroke. until then i should update my skid plate thread.

Quote
BJosephD
I have a whole box of crappy springs that were given to me. 350,450 and 550 @ 8"!!! holy fawk. those (550) were the ones run with the Ledas the car came with, iam hoping it saw some track days with those kinds of rates. I currently have the car stored until i close on my house in 4 weeks. no big deal. i also have an email out to bilstein to see if the carry an insert like the one i want with a shorter body and same or more stroke. until then i should update my skid plate thread.

Well, you may be able to use some of those springs with a slider/stacker thing-a-ma-bobber. Two 550# springs stacked have an effective rate of 275#. So, you could get a 4" or 5" 550# spring and a $10 slider and stack them for 12-13" of 275# goodness.

Probably would only save a few $$ though. And, you would have a spring rate change toward the end of your stroke as the shorter spring goes into coil bind leaving the rate at 550# for the remaining 1" or so of the stroke.

Quote
john vanlandingham
not everybody is pushing as hard as you,

Well, you told me when i bought the struts from you:

"OK, when you get the things all bolted up. Put on a set of gravel tires and air them up to 32psi or so. Then find a nice good place with a curb---you know a curb like on the side of your street. Now get in the car and get going about 60mph and drive straight into the curb. **laugh** Seriously, go get in your car and drive into the curb at 60mph. You won't break the struts and if you do, send them back to me and I'll fix them up for youse...."

So, I did. And it worked, and gave me confidence to push hard and go fast.

Quote
BJosephD
I have a whole box of crappy springs that were given to me. 350,450 and 550 @ 8"!!! holy fawk. those (550) were the ones run with the Ledas the car came with, iam hoping it saw some track days with those kinds of rates. I currently have the car stored until i close on my house in 4 weeks. no big deal. i also have an email out to bilstein to see if the carry an insert like the one i want with a shorter body and same or more stroke. until then i should update my skid plate thread.

They do. I just got 4 more in UPS today and also order 3 more about an hour ago...

They come with an unfinished 22 x 110mm bar at the top which can be finished any way needed. On MOST EVERY Japanese car, and that its a 15mm ID bearing in the top mount.
Soome guys prefer a big fat pin for fitting into spherical bearings...

Let me know the answer you get.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.