Carbon Fiber for fuel cell case?

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NoCoast
I know. The metal case can be made of anything, or in the old days, not at all apparently. Inside the case is the wobbly kevlar sack.
Hence the helmet protector protector.
The fuel cell is the kevlar sack.
The bulkhead protector is the steel or aluminum can that is usually bought with the cell.
The helmet protector protector is the steel or aluminum can that has to protect the oval fill plate at the top of the cell.

I actually considered getting a oversized fuel cell can as my protector. Just put the cell inside, remote fill from one fill plate to another...

So after all these years, the Babushka Fuel Cells


apologies to the babushka dolls

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

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There are carbon fiber fuel cell enclosures that are FIA legal. You see them all the time in FIA GT and prototype racing. The Ferrari F430GT that I worked on in the ALMS in 2007 had 2 fuel cells (right behind the bulkhead on either side of the engine) in carbon fiber cases. Also, when our driver hit the wall and destroyed the car while in the lead in its second race the car caught on fire (duh, it's a Ferrari) and so did the fuel cell case a little bit. Somewhere I have pictures. The corner marshals put out the fire right away but the fuel cell on that side got scorched and we had to replace the carbon fiber cover.
As Bob pointed out carbon fiber doesn't burn but the epoxy resin holding together does. A good fire will burn all the resin out of a carbon fiber part just leaving the cloth behind that you could practically reuse.

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Doivi Clarkinen
There are carbon fiber fuel cell enclosures that are FIA legal. You see them all the time in FIA GT and prototype racing. The Ferrari F430GT that I worked on in the ALMS in 2007 had 2 fuel cells (right behind the bulkhead on either side of the engine) in carbon fiber cases. Also, when our driver hit the wall and destroyed the car while in the lead in its second race the car caught on fire (duh, it's a Ferrari) and so did the fuel cell case a little bit. Somewhere I have pictures. The corner marshals put out the fire right away but the fuel cell on that side got scorched and we had to replace the carbon fiber cover.
As Bob pointed out carbon fiber doesn't burn but the epoxy resin holding together does. A good fire will burn all the resin out of a carbon fiber part just leaving the cloth behind that you could practically reuse.

I'm sure the FIA specs are pretty tough too. Probably must tolerate a given temperature before catching fire and must not give off toxic fumes as the epoxy burns away, blah, blah. Probably not within the realm of a DIY'ers garage-built carbon fiber fuel cell.

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Opel is a 4-letter word...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10498579@N07/sets/

I wonder if you were doing a short event where you could do the whole event on one tank of fuel if you could just cover the whole top with a but load of aluminum tape. You don't need to refill anyhow...

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Grant Hughes

The Ford Focus WRC at dirt fish has a loose fuel cell bladder strapped to the floor behind the seats. That is what it ran with.

Wow, they just set it on the floor? well strapped right? zip ties maybe? I could see that as being acceptable... er not so much

I remember seeing the fuel cell in a Subaru WRC as being something similar - saddle shaped tank, and IIRC it stuffed up underneath the car with a big carbon skidplate to protect it. No can.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Quote
Pete
I remember seeing the fuel cell in a Subaru WRC as being something similar - saddle shaped tank, and IIRC it stuffed up underneath the car with a big carbon skidplate to protect it. No can.

I once tried to get a definition of fire proof from Hurst. It was like bashing my head against a wall. I never got an answer.

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

okay just so i under stand things...

lets say i have this cell (pic below). It as a cell, with a steel casing. The steel casing would need another fireproof casing? or just the filler parts? Because i have the understanding its like the picture on the bottom.

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
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Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

just the filler parts... and only in a hatchback. Not needed in the trunk of a coupe or sedan if the the suitable separation between it and the drivers.

ah okay thats more reasonable than i thought. i was convinced the steel casing needed a steel casing. I am working with a hatch back.

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

Basically the passengers compartment has to be 'safe' from fuel spills, fumes or leakage. The normal steel container can be used in a hatchback with either a compartment seperator or a small box built over the fuel fill area. The upper seam on the tank should be sealed with a fire stop sealer and the tank should have a drain installed that goes thru the floor.

It just isn't the big hassel some people like to portray. FIA rules are rather specific about installation in 2 box cars and where the fill can mount (so it isn't easily ripped out in a side swipe for one).

Older sedans like many Mazda, Datsun and even Audi had the fuel tank in the truck and seperated with only the back seat. Cars like this need the whole trunk sealed off and the C pillar opening into the pass compartment, even with a stock tank.

We've been lucky with the fire thing to date. Luck isn't any sort of guarantee nor should it be used as an example of something being allowable. Look how many car fires are on the news regularly or how many we've seen in person along the freeway. There have been many racers badly injured or killed thru fire with good cells, response crews and everything done right.

do you have links to the FIA requirements for remote fill location? I planned to mimic the WRC rx7s and have it in the rear 1/4 window.

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

Not worth the effort. They don't recognize FIA accepted standards for that. Just ask the Burress brothers.
Fill it at the the tank. Or with a dry break and turn pump/.

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Grant Hughes