Roll cage (not mine)

Local in my home town is building a subaru, but i believe his cage might have issues getting logbooked. Figured i would ask here before talking to him. He has already painted it and is assembling the car, so this is way i ask.

The first thing I see, I believe there should be gussets between the door bars and the front stay where the 90s are created. I also think the gussets in the main hoop might be a little small.

I plan on advising him to visit this site.

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

I can tell you from first hand experience this is the forum to get a cage looked over. The number of eyes will pretty find what is wrong plus you have some actual techies to give you the exact reason. May the fun begin!

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Mike

"If it is not broken then don't fix it, but make it faster!"

Missing gussets on A pillar support but most importantly the 1/2 laterals are back a bit too far from the windshield and look to mount about a foot back on the floor from where they should be, not to mention the goofy angle to get there. Can't see most of the cage and pics are some times deceiving but might need some serious work.

I sent him your contact information Gene and asked him to find this site. Hopefully he can be steered towards victory.

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

How the hell do you get in and out of that cage? Why would you do that? My guess is so the dash fits.........

Quote
phlat65
How the hell do you get in and out of that cage? Why would you do that? My guess is so the dash fits.........

I'm with ya...mystery. With a couple exceptions..Beetle and old Saab come to mind.. cages can't run in front of dash these days. If you can't get out ECrew can't get in.

so Gene would the cage pass with the bars that far up?

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

The harness bar seems high to. At least in the pic with the co drivers seat.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

That is a pretty small hole to crawl through, try it with a helmet and hanz on...

Gene. It does not say in the rulebook or cage rules that the front half laterals have to be a certain distance to or from the a-pillar. Retarded? Yes? Legal? Unfortunately. A local guy building a customer's STI did similar. Kern and I gave him a ton of shit about many aspects of the cage. The more recent ones he's done are a bit better.
Harness Bar - Should be welded in AFTER the seats are mounted. It can be fine that high but may have to positition the seats in order to get the legal angles.

Needs - 2 gussets on the a-pillar reinforcement to door bar junction.
Is it me or does it appear that the door bars are actually bent slightly outward near the back? Since it has a sill bar, not illegal persay, though stupid as now the door bars will have X" to move inward before they even start affecting the half lateral or main hoop. That's X" closer to the occupant in a side impact.

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Grant Hughes

I noticed at sno drift a lot of cages have a bend by the b pillar along with the X. Top tear quality cage builders so I guess they feel its safe enough.

I guess they could raise the seat so there heads closer to the roof but I still think the bar is to high.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

Quote
Reamer
I noticed at sno drift a lot of cages have a bend by the b pillar along with the X. Top tear quality cage builders so I guess they feel its safe enough.

I guess they could raise the seat so there heads closer to the roof but I still think the bar is to high.

Top cage builder doesn't mean shit. Just because you are a good fabricator and/or welder doesn't mean you understand what's going to happen in a crash. I only have a mild grip on the theory but in a side impact, a straight bar is going to instantly start pulling and transferring energy into the main hoop and half lateraly until the point in time that a weld fails or tube breaks. So the force is being dispersed and absorbed almost instantly into surrounding bars as intended. With a bent bar, there will be first movement of however far out the tube is bent outward before it starts dispersing to the attached bars. Inward towards the passenger compartment.
I've seen first hand the direct effect of someone thinking something was safer/stronger result in a more severe injury. And it was something simple, skid plate mounts. Both driver and codriver were airlifted.

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Grant Hughes

I think top tear cage builders does mean shit when were talking about the cages. Im not arguing much here just pointing out that its common to see. And you can argue all you want to me about the door bars and I will concede to the rally forums on this.

Reality says there is no other motor sport that has straight door bars including rally. I would trust my life with a Nascar cup car hitting a tree side ways before some dinky 1.5" X. Sorry thats the way I feel.

The door opening is where there is an issue with safety and the ability to get out of the car. On one hand they want an easy exit. On the other hand Side impact is the worst case for injury and the door opening rules counter dict what is truly safest from any type of side impact.

I look at this differently then most here. If the unfortunate happens I would like to hope that when hit from the side that the higher the door bars are the more load they will take off of the single lateral half. This is if the car is going in a ditch lets say on a 45 degree angle side ways. If the bars are way low there is no chance of them helping keep the lateral half from failing.

The rules also say that the bends cant be more then 6" in. And as long as there less then 4" out from the main hoop nothing else is needed.
There testing must of proved that small bends dont fail until they reach the 4" area. I would rather have more elbow room then a perfectly straight door X. They also say they want the cage as close to the shell as possible witch counter dics the straight door bars.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

Quote
NoCoast
Gene. It does not say in the rulebook or cage rules that the front half laterals have to be a certain distance to or from the a-pillar. Retarded? Yes? Legal? Unfortunately. A local guy building a customer's STI did similar. Kern and I gave him a ton of shit about many aspects of the cage. The more recent ones he's done are a bit better.
Harness Bar - Should be welded in AFTER the seats are mounted. It can be fine that high but may have to positition the seats in order to get the legal angles.

Needs - 2 gussets on the a-pillar reinforcement to door bar junction.
Is it me or does it appear that the door bars are actually bent slightly outward near the back? Since it has a sill bar, not illegal persay, though stupid as now the door bars will have X" to move inward before they even start affecting the half lateral or main hoop. That's X" closer to the occupant in a side impact.

Grant, read the rules again...The vertical part of the main rollbar must be as close as possible to
the interior contour of the bodyshell and must have only one bend
with its lower vertical part.
The front pillar of a front rollbar or of a lateral rollbar must follow
the windscreen pillars as closely as possible and have only one
bend with its lower vertical part

right from 253. Those bars do not follow the A pillar as closely as possible, they follow 1/2 the A pillar and that won't get a logbook from me unless a higher power over rides that decision.


I'm fine with the door bars from the pics...NASCAR has a whole grid of interlocked 2 inch tubing covered with a sheet metal skin. Not even remotely similar to anything in rally.

Quote
heymagic
The front pillar of a front rollbar or of a lateral rollbar must follow
the windscreen pillars as closely as possible and have only one
bend with its lower vertical part

Well, one could argue that with a dash in, that is as close as possible.
Production class doesn't specifically say you can modify the dash does it? Then maybe it's not legal to do so?

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Grant Hughes