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Pascal
Is there any way to find out the specific diameters and wall thicknesses? If you you went with the CDS tubing, and the tube sizes were compliant, wouldn't that cage be ok? From the pictures it doesn't look like it has any of the weird design features sometimes seen in FIA homologated cages.

The folks at Custom Cages should be able to provide that information.

The tricky thing that we run into is that those are euro spec'd tubing and to meet US regs they need to be 1.75x0.095 etc. But if the euro bars are bigger, shouldn't have any issues. Based on the tubing OD of the T45 stuff, I'm thinking that the euro spec bars are somewhat smaller than 1.75".

Dave

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DaveK

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Pascal
Is there any way to find out the specific diameters and wall thicknesses? If you you went with the CDS tubing, and the tube sizes were compliant, wouldn't that cage be ok? From the pictures it doesn't look like it has any of the weird design features sometimes seen in FIA homologated cages.

The folks at Custom Cages should be able to provide that information.

The tricky thing that we run into is that those are euro spec'd tubing and to meet US regs they need to be 1.75x0.095 etc. But if the euro bars are bigger, shouldn't have any issues. Based on the tubing OD of the T45 stuff, I'm thinking that the euro spec bars are somewhat smaller than 1.75".

Dave

Since at least 1991 FIA says main hoop (across the car) or side main hoops" ( a hoop on each side around the doors basically) must be
1.75" x .095"
alt(ternately) 45mm x 2,5mm
alt 50mm x 2,0mm
alt 2.0" x .083

The rest must be:
38mm x 2,5mm
alt 1.5" x .095"
alt 40 x 1,6mm

The French and the Swedish translation and my reading of the English and inquiries confirms this is correct.
alt 2.0" x .083"

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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NoCoast

Wasn't there a cage built in Boise not too long ago that had to get cut out or was not or barely legal?

SHHHHH. Don't say that too loud, Dan just dropped his new car off for some wiring. I think he'd like that nameless old project to sit quietly in it's grave, until the damages have been recouped.

It's not the drive/distance that is concerning, it's the fact that I'm on call 24/7 365. I need to maintain a certain response time and a trip to Denver is outside of that. I can call in a floater to cover but I'd rather not have to call in a floater twice in a month. It's a pretty big hassle and people would be upset. I'd like to save those sorts of favors for more important things. Like rallies.

PS still no response from custom cages


I'm gonna put a little more time into some local options. If those don't pan out, I'll be giving you a call Grant.

VT sports car assures me that the MSA cert will fly with RA. Will have tubing size and dia tomorrow.
CDS cage runs $1200 +shipping so $16-1800.

Kit includes all gussets but does not include cage feet.

Just dont take advice from those guys on how to build a legal SP car. Just ask Mirra.

FWIW, this flies in the face of what Mike Hurst told me over email back in 2009/10. However, I suppose the difference is that now MSA cert'd cages now have several upgrades that they didn't 2 years ago...and I was asking only about T-45 cages.

Dave



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2012 10:16AM by DaveK.

Talking about cage... who can built one for a wonderful Volvo 240???

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Arno

"Sideways get you there Faster"

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DaveK
Just dont take advice from those guys on how to build a legal SP car. Just ask Mirra.

Care to share? I always though (at least from visual inspection) the cars were built to the very limit of the SP rules.

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DaveK
FWIW, this flies in the face of what Mike Hurst told me over email back in 2009/10. However, I suppose the difference is that now MSA cert'd cages now have several upgrades that they didn't 2 years ago...and I was asking only about T-45 cages.

Dave

I would still talk through Hurst as what VTcar says isn't RA's word.

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BillyElliot
Care to share? I always though (at least from visual inspection) the cars were built to the very limit of the SP rules.

Rumor was a local driver protested the fact that Mirra's SP car had no wiring in the back doors and he was docked 3 or 5 positions at whatever race that was...allowing said driver to tow home a title.

Dave

I'm not a scrutineer but from my understanding:

1. The gussets on the X bars look small to NASA rules (which I don't understand because they don't make sense for anything but a 90 deg angle) and do not incorporate a way of inspection to ensure the center of the X is welded together, which is another NASA specific regulation not pulled from the FIA. They may pass this based on the plate being a complete weld but do not state as such in their NASA specific cage rules.

2. More importantly there is no sill bar. NASA requires one for a NASA cage cert, RA does not since FIA regs do not.

3. There are no pics of the roof section so make sure there is an X with a center gusset, which there probably isn't since it wasn't required until 2007.

For the most part it looks fine to me per the FIA, and NASA rules. There are no shoulder belt mounts so you will have to source that somehow or use the rear strut tower tiebar which is a shitty idea IMO since every belt mfr I've looked at recommends keeping them as short as possible (which for some reason the FIA regs are in almost direct contradiction to).

I'm not an official or a scrutineer so use the above for reference only or as questions to ask someone who can officially read.

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Project328is
Talking about cage... who can built one for a wonderful Volvo 240???

Lots of people CAN, the critical question is who WILL?

Arno what is that horrible user name you have there?

Project328is?
Is that some very subtle sarcasm?

You need something that makes sense!
Vedette du Nord, Boite Suedoise, hell Project L'avenir sumptin ferfawkssake!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

John...you're right!!! it was my log in on other site and my little Bimmer put a smile on my face on many occasions!!! so, it was an Odd to the E36... I will think about something more appropriate, but back to the topic.

Who will??? it is the question...

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Arno

"Sideways get you there Faster"

^ Speaking of more appropriate...why not build a nice looking late 90s BMW instead of a box?

Dave

Dave, it sounds like a good idea!!! I kinda started the process in transforming the lovely BOX, maybe I should pay my dues with the Volvo and then upgrade...

The Bimmer will be still there when I am ready...

Arno

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Arno

"Sideways get you there Faster"

What we really need is less Subaru, Mitsubishi, Subaru, Mitsubishi....did I mention Subaru!!! and more real wheel drive action.... it would bring back the fun of the '70, early '80's...the fans would love it...

Such as....

---

Arno

"Sideways get you there Faster"

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DaveK

Quote
BillyElliot
Care to share? I always though (at least from visual inspection) the cars were built to the very limit of the SP rules.

Rumor was a local driver protested the fact that Mirra's SP car had no wiring in the back doors and he was docked 3 or 5 positions at whatever race that was...allowing said driver to tow home a title.

Dave

Bull shit..pure and simple. I, me personally, no one else, was doing post race inspections on the SP cars. Rear doors were on the list to check. We usually pick 3 things to check on the cars. We mix it up between items and classes. I found the innards were missing, reported to Hurst, a report was then made to the event stewards. They decided on the penalty. Has absolutley nothing to do with local drivers or regional entries. It was a mistake on VS behalf, they were used to building Open class cars. I don't think it was anything more than that. It was a new class and new territory for them. Again it involved no one other than Mirra and the tech people. No character assination needed.