I have a thoroughly bad relationship with the power steering system on my rally 90Q, the steering rack leaks, the bomb leaks, its all gross and sticky. Does not help on the dusty stages, all gets covered in dirt. Also, constantly adding CHF 11S is getting old. I hear you can get a steering rack from VW Fox, which will be a manual rack. There is one on a junk yard 40 miles away. So, at this point I am very tempted to just go and remove all the power steering crap, and convert to vacuum boosted brakes and manual steering rack. I want the input from people who have done this already, and especially how this would relate to a rally car, that would be great.

Pros for the manual conversion:
1) Save money, don't need to fix the whole power steering system.
2) Simplify and free space in engine bay
3) Get a bit extra power by removing the power steering pump
4) Get rid of some weight up front to make a nose heavy car not as nose heavy.
5) Get some muscle, save on gym subscription.

Cons:
1) Harder to turn the steering wheel, might be disadvantageous on stages where need to quickly correct.
2) From what I hear the Fox rack will be lower ratio, so, more turns lock to lock, again, might be a disadvantage in rally setting.

The tires on the car won't be wider than 185s. I don't care how hard it is to turn the steering wheel in the parking lot, whats more important, how easy is it while moving. I remember driving a volvo 360 which had manual steering and I loved it, but that was long time ago.

Questions:
1) How significant is the increase in lock to lock turns of the Fox rack?
2) For a reasonably able man, who is willing to work out, how significant is the increased load on the steering during driving?

Thanks,

Klim

No.
Unless you make Schwartzenegger look like a girly-boy.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Con #1 is a serious thing. It can be really hard to make quick motions in a panic with a manual rack when it starts fighting you halfway through the movement. Ask me how I know. I also say no. Steering with throttle and brake is awesome, but when you need to make a quick correction it needs to be doable.

Manual conversions are for drag rats and parking enthusiasts.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Convert to an electric ps column with stock emptied but sealed hydraulic rack.

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Grant Hughes

if you were going from a slow PS rack to a fast manual rack, "maybe".

but going from power to manual AND to a slower rack?

(I'm seriously looking at an electric column so I can keep my fast rack and add power behind it)

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KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com

Our older car (Mk2 Golf) had a slow manual rack - I didn't mind it. I'm not a huge guy but never had issues on stage being able to turn it. The many turns it took to get from lock to lock sucked though. I didn't realize how much time I spent turn the wheel until the got to use a power rack with (albeit marginally) quicker steering in stage. I did like all the feel the manual rack had, but I guess thats the trade.

I don't think the manual rack would make or break any stage times, provided your arms aren't noodles.

Here's a solution for you. I have a brand new rebuilt Audi 90 steering rack I will sell you for cheap. Send me a PM. You seriously do not want manual steering in an Audi rally car with 157% of the weight hanging out over the front bumper (slight exaggeration.) You would instantly regret it.

Quote
Matt Bobyn
Our older car (Mk2 Golf) had a slow manual rack - I didn't mind it. I'm not a huge guy but never had issues on stage being able to turn it. The many turns it took to get from lock to lock sucked though. I didn't realize how much time I spent turn the wheel until the got to use a power rack with (albeit marginally) quicker steering in stage. I did like all the feel the manual rack had, but I guess thats the trade.

I don't think the manual rack would make or break any stage times, provided your arms aren't noodles.

the only figure I know came from late 70s in 99 Saabs--power and FWD and good ratio. PS va Non PS= 1 sec/km or 1.6 sec per mile and that was with good (WRC) drivers who know what they're doing..and in a much nice balanced car.

But maybe our Russian friend does make Schwartzenegger like like girly man

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

That much eh? Neat info. Can't say I have any data of that sort for our cars - there are far too many other variables to compare them, most notably being the errors and (hopefully) improvement of the two people in the car.

Hmm, I was really looking forward to getting buff. Ok. Maybe Ill just convert the braking system from hydro assist to normal vacuum booster, but fix the power steering. Ill look into the electric assist, but something tells me it will be way out of our price range.

Klim

Can you swap in the manual rack with the same steering colum or change the column easily? If so, you could do a trial of the manual.

But that car is indeed going to be heavy on the steering and I agree with everyone so far that sticking with the PS is a must on that car. It you had a 2400 lb RWD car, with good weight distribution, then it would be different. But that car screams for PS; it has to have incredibly high weight transfer onto the front wheels under braking and downhill.

I would just keep adding fluid or replace the PS rack.

Quote
mulik52
Hmm, I was really looking forward to getting buff. Ok. Maybe Ill just convert the braking system from hydro assist to normal vacuum booster, but fix the power steering. Ill look into the electric assist, but something tells me it will be way out of our price range.

Klim

Vacuum assist suck big green donkey balls in any car with a) lumpy cams that make for fun motors or b) turbo cars that make pressure, not vacuum.

Most people have bigger leg muscles than arm muscles...right sized brakes should be groovy without boost if you have manly legs... and many of the top drivers "back in the day" were scrawny little Italian guys who weighed maybe 55kg, and they did pretty good braking.

понимать?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2013 09:57PM by john vanlandingham.

Fix the leaks, install a quickener. The 1.5:1 quickener with a power rack in the honda is awesome. Very seldomly did I have to remove my hands from the steering wheel to turn it more during LSPR.

I agree, add a 1:1.5 quickener and get the stock stuff in good working order. cheapest/easiest/will gives best results

Doivi's offer is awesome...