Did RA remove required sill bar if using DOM?

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Grant Hughes

Quote
alkun
I think its silly.

whole thing needs this

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

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CALL +1 206 431-9696
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Quote
NoCoast
Did RA remove required sill bar if using DOM?

No.

You can use DOM or CDM and a sill bar is not required if you use FIA Article 253 Appendix J.

Or, you use whatever material was specified if you use a holomogated cage.

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Jason McDaniel



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2013 12:06AM by modernbeat.

Here's the current (2013) RA cage rules.

5.5. ROLLOVER PROTECTION

A. Accepted safety cages for new construction are:

1. Safety cages homologated by the FIA or a recognized ASN.

2. Safety cages that meet the specifications (for new homologations) of
current FIA Appendix J Article 253, which requires CDS tubing.
Refer to the following FIA web site for the current version of this
document.

Although FIA Article 253.8.3 specifies the safety cage material as
CDS, Rally America will allow DOM as an alternate material. When
DOM is used, it must meet the minimum dimensions indicated in the
table below.

Existing rally vehicles with existing 2006 Rally America roll cages will
continue to be legal for the foreseeable future. The safety cage
standards that apply to these cars may be obtained from Rally America.
Contact tech@rally-america.com for more information.

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Jason McDaniel

I guess im confusing RA with Nasa. I thought Nasa required a sill bar and RA didnt. Im still not seeing where RA says you need a sill bar in the rules. Even ythere diagram shows 2 bars 1 sill and one higher but then it states that those 2 bars can make a X. it doesnt follow up and say if you make an X you need to add a 3rd sill bar. Its clear in Nasa rules that a sill bar is required. So I guess we are all just confusing each set of rules.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
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I stand corrected. RA's current rulebook does not require a sill bar. I feel like it used to require a 1.75" sill bar IF you used DOM but that may have been an old misinterpretation. Irrelevant now though...
NRS requires whatever they think they should require.
For example, FIA 253 8.3.2.2.3 states if you wish to use the optional member 253-22 then you must have 253-14 design in the roof. NRS interpretation is that if you use 253-14 in the roof then you are now REQUIRED to have 253-22, which is not stated in 8.3.2.1.3.

Which isn't that big of a deal, I have a few cages that I need to add it to or they need to get RA logbooks instead, but important to note that a cage built to any ruleset isn't necessarily legal for any logbook.

Though I just now add those in all cages and raised the base price.

Here's a pic of the cage we finished on Saturday.

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Grant Hughes

Seem nobody cars for floor spreader plates any more.
I'm sure that the nice thick edge of the cage base standing on edge would never have a chance to cut thru the massively thick slab of 0,85-1mm sheet that the floor is made of if there was a large force applied, say 1,3 tons going 40 MPH.. Naw, no chance at all, why would 1/8 Plate on edge put any load on the thick, thobbing manly floor?
That's probably why they dropped the x thick x L x w rule, huh?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
I'm sure that the nice thick edge of the cage base standing on edge would never have a chance to cut thru the massively thick slab of 0,85-1mm sheet that the floor is made of if there was a large force applied, say 1,3 tons going 40 MPH.. Naw, no chance at all, why would 1/8 Plate on edge put any load on the thick, thobbing manly floor?
That's probably why they dropped the x thick x L x w rule, huh?

That piece that is welded 8" on the floor, 4-5" on sill and rear parcel shelf and another 8" to the triangle that is also has 15-16 linear inches of weld to the sill and rear shelf area? Basically what I am saying is, welded to basically four different planes in a likely excessive amount of linear weldment and surface area...

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Grant Hughes

How much angle is acceptable in the main hoop. Ideal would be straight, but for seat clearance or whatever.

I believe I read in the FIA article some where max 20 degrees. I think but not sure. I run mine close to the same angle as the B pillar. It looks like thats how Grant has run his also. I think if you ran it extreme and it just doesnt look safe its to much. You kind of have to use good judment on alot of these areas. I think thats partially why theres so many cage questions. Every body has thoughts on evry section of a cage most are valid. Most wont make any differance in life threatening crashes. Build it as safe as you can. No real need to go into what style door bar is actually the strongest. I say build it how you like it with in there set rules and be happy. None of the door rules are going to save you over another at high speed impacts to trees.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

Quote
NoCoast

Quote
john vanlandingham
I'm sure that the nice thick edge of the cage base standing on edge would never have a chance to cut thru the massively thick slab of 0,85-1mm sheet that the floor is made of if there was a large force applied, say 1,3 tons going 40 MPH.. Naw, no chance at all, why would 1/8 Plate on edge put any load on the thick, thobbing manly floor?
That's probably why they dropped the x thick x L x w rule, huh?

That piece that is welded 8" on the floor, 4-5" on sill and rear parcel shelf and another 8" to the triangle that is also has 15-16 linear inches of weld to the sill and rear shelf area? Basically what I am saying is, welded to basically four different planes in a likely excessive amount of linear weldment and surface area...

I know Grant, everybody has been doing that.. Just that as absurdly picky and choosie they are allowing this idea but I don't think the footer plat e rule is annulled.

In other words it didn't say you can weld here andf there and over there....
You do understand the point of the rule dotcha?
FIA specifies 3mm or 1/8" because floors are like paper folded over 4 times..

Whatever I guess its not important because nobody is doing it.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

10 degree max layback. Pythagoreous says that can be inches further back on seat.

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Grant Hughes

Is there a minimum thickness on the gusset material?

1mm,
18 gauge.

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Grant Hughes