Super Bitching Suspenders - First Outing

We certainly started the day slowly, getting accustomed to the car, team and conditions. It was slow and steady until A8, at which point my feeling with the car and Kristin's notes really started to gel. We started more aggressively, infact getting way too much air on the big jump, followed by a crest. We landed hard on top of the crest and bunny hopped off course. Luckily there was only deep snow which we drove out of without incident. Kristin suggested I tone it down a bit - so I cleaned up my lines and approaches. We had a ball on those 4 stages, very technical but flowing. The only issue at this point was my clutch pedal feel was going away - in a rather strange way.

Our crew kept us on course in several ways - in Perce Neige type of weather - cold, cold and more cold!
We found the clutch problem was a bushing in the clutch pedal that had disintegrated. The crew figured out how to fix it by making a new bushing from a pen cap! In the afternoon we came in with a severely bent rim and them banged that back into shape (lets hear it for inner tubes . The performance of those 3 guys in service was the best I've seen - they really pulled it together - and for the limited budget we're on, just made things happen!

Looking at our times we pushed a bit more on the B stages and found enough speed to claim an 11th fastest stage time on the last stage. I know we were going quick when a R4 came up on us just a little sooner than expected after a very long straight - we must have been doing 130/140 clicks approaching it. For quite a while under braking, all I could see was tree's, then the turn opened up for me. It was all I could do to keep the car on the road and execute the turn - thankfully there was lots of room.

The final straight through the wood pile was fast almost touching 160 - we're proud of that stage with the limited lighting we had. It also shows that with a good team and the car in good shape I think we can achieve a top 10 result. That will be the goal for 2008.

Bottom line - the suspenders worked very well - a couple of big, big jumps - were handled without drama by the bitchin suspenders. Very nice feeeeel.

However, we've determine they are too tall. If we lower the springs, then on full extension the springs will be flopping around. I think the inserts themselves are just too long - does that make sense?

JVL - what can be done to drop the car an inch or so, while having a little preload on the springs - and not having them flopping around on full extension?

Thanks!

helper springs...

http://e30m3performance.com/tech_articles/susp-tech/springs/index.htm

Yup - looks like the right type of tool!

Thanks Doug.

Any other digestions before I go running down this road? 10 lb/in would be sufficient for these main springs?

Other options... get longer springs.

The helper springs are just there to keep things together when off the ground. Not sure on spring rates, but they're very light. The intention is not to act as a tender spring, or to create a dual/progressive spring-rate setup... the intention is to keep things in their place when the suspension is at full droop.

What's john have to say about it?

I think helper springs would work, when the car is on the ground the helper springs would be fully compressed - but at full droop, they would be uncompressedand hopefully keeping the big springs in place against the top perch - problem with longer springs - I think - is that they would not let the car drop lower. You'd be lowering the bottom perch, but the car would remain at the same height.

John?

To determine if the inserts are too long or not you need to check your static ride height. Jack the car up, put a zip tie around the insert down low and lwer the car down. Do this on a front and a rear shock. Roll the car back and forth to settle it but don't push down on it. Jack it back up and measure where the zip tie is on the insert. Ideally you want the car to be sitting in the middle of the shock travel at the static ride height you want to run. So, for example. if your strut has 200mm of travel you want the zip tie to be at 100mm, right in the middle. You have leeway above and below that, of course, a range that is perfectly safe but you don't want to be totally out of whack. Like if you only had 50mm of compression left at static ride height that's a real problem, or even only 50mm of droop is bad also.

vbares Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Our crew kept us on course in several ways - in
> Perce Neige type of weather - cold, cold and more
> cold!

Can't help but chuckle a bit at that line and think of Rallly Quebec in Feb...where 0 degrees F is a heat wave...brrrrrrr!

Mark B.

vbares Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think helper springs would work, when the car is
> on the ground the helper springs would be fully
> compressed - but at full droop, they would be
> uncompressedand hopefully keeping the big springs
> in place against the top perch - problem with
> longer springs - I think - is that they would not
> let the car drop lower. You'd be lowering the
> bottom perch, but the car would remain at the same
> height.
>
> John?
Vittorio chere ami, right now I dunna know if there are any 3" diameter helper springs anywhere.
What length springs did I end up sending? 14" (I think it was 14 but gotta check.)

I'll search and you search too.

By the way---packing up all your stuff out here, what should i really send back?
Wheel
knuckle / hub
strut body
strut with questionable insert?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Vittorio,
Stop looking at the speedo! Look farther down the road. You Psycho! ;-)
Ted

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

I believe Kartek has 3" ID helpers but couldnt find them on their site anymore, but did find others:

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/product.php?productid=635

http://www.bsrproducts.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=78&products_id=681&bsrID=b639055728635ba92b7b71e1d0cb5fc4

Hey John -

I think they were 14's, just checked them on the car they're a little under 12 with the car sitting on them.

Also checked the strut body, 62mm or just under 2.5". I'm assuming the ID of the spring is 3"? Any idea how thick the spring material is?

Could use the parts for the next outing - you can toss the questionable insert - but it would be good to have the rest.

Thanks.

SHWEET...looks like there's hope

Thanks !

My yellow dim hella 2000's just don't reach that far - gotta keep myself occupied somehow :p

BTW - anyone try those chinese HID kits? Go for about $120?

Hella 2000's are H2 bulbs. (Trust me, I have a set, used them on the Scirocco!).

You will never find an H2 HID conversion; which is a shame, because the filament in the H2 bulb runs the right way and is ideal for an HID conversion. Problem is, the base is different than anything else out there. It's a glass wedge, that fits into the holder in the Hella base. Might be possible to get an HID conversion for something else (H1/H3), and modify the body to make it fit. H2 is just too uncommon, and not used anywhere anymore.

I just picked up an H3 kit, but it arrived the friday, so we didn't get it till sunday after Pines. Definitely brighter, and drops right into the H3. Haven't tried it on the car yet, just in a spare lense I had.

You weren't alone on with the Super Bitchin stuff out there!!!

I believe i started all of the B stages right behind you guys...Car #47, White/Black/Orange Impreza.

Also....Narini's in their Black/Orange "777" Legacy started a few ahead of us.

You were going good on the (you and i were like 2 seconds apart on most of those).

We had it on cruise just about all day...just going for a finish in a brand new car...but we definately Jumped the hell out of it on Lower/middle Hastings on both runnings.

As for the HID kits from China....Narini's ran one set from Ebay...cost them $90 shipped to their door. They were H1 bulbs and went into their FF1000's. FOr $90 you could not beat the price, and the performance was night and day different (compared with a 100w Halogen). They are on my Xmas list, and i'm going to fill all my lights with them in the future.

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Chris