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MK3 Jetta build

Posted by fabianp

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fabianp
PIERCE FABIAN
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Location: Vancouver, BC
Join Date: 02/19/2015
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 46

Rally Car:
'96 Jetta

fabianp

Re: MK3 Jetta build
March 30, 2015 04:36PM

Registered: 02/19/2015
Posts: 46

Clarification:

I purchased this 4.46 final drive from this list:
http://www.mts-motorsport.com/epages/61752271.sf/en_US/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61752271/Categories/Getriebetechnik/Achsantrieb/%22VW%20020%20/%2002K%20Getriebe%22

I am running your typical run-of-the-mill 020 from a 2.0L mk3 Jetta: transmission code CHE.

It has been installed, and the rest has been shimmed, but when it came to the final assembly of the gears the splining and width of where 4th sits is substantially smaller. HOW IS THIS SUPPOSED TO BE AN UPGRADE? ...And they say it is for an 8v when if I need a 16v 4th gear it is for a 16v (at this point quite old).

See the difference in the image:

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2015 04:43PM by fabianp.

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fabianp
PIERCE FABIAN
Junior Moderator
Location: Vancouver, BC
Join Date: 02/19/2015
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 46

Rally Car:
'96 Jetta

fabianp

Re: MK3 Jetta build
March 30, 2015 04:50PM

Registered: 02/19/2015
Posts: 46

Quote
DexterVW
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmm.. yeah so a few points I don't get

We did get a 2.0 16V with an o2o trans... not that the gears in the trans change the way it bolts up to the motor.. unless you changed the input shaft.. then you might have gone from the small spline to the large and it won't fit with the clutch anymore. Other than that you could put anything inside the trans and it won't change the way it bolts to the motor...

Sorry, corrected now. I had to drive out to the shop as I was clearly missing something when talking on the phone with a bad connection.

It is indeed the fitment of the 4th gear onto the new supposedly better final drive.
Pictures posted in thread.

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Erik Christiansen
Erik Christiansen
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Erik Christiansen

Re: MK3 Jetta build
March 30, 2015 04:56PM

Registered: 05/16/2008
Posts: 73

As with all things 020, Broke has the answer: http://www.brokevw.com/020rebuild8.html

For mk3 '93 through June '97 8v 020's they use the same larger spline for 4th gear as the mk2 16v's. VW switched back to the skinny splines in June '97. It looks like you purchased an 8v R&P when you should have bought a 16v.

The good news is you can still use it if you can find a mk2 8v 4th gear. People do this all the time when swapping in OEM 4.25 final drives.

The "8v" and "16v" nomenclature for 020 transmissions doesn't apply to mk3's. Your CHE transmission has the same larger input shaft and larger fourth gear spline as the mk2 16v transmissions (2Y and AG cool smiley

, despite being mated to an 8v engine.

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fabianp
PIERCE FABIAN
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Location: Vancouver, BC
Join Date: 02/19/2015
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 46

Rally Car:
'96 Jetta

fabianp

Re: MK3 Jetta build
March 30, 2015 05:17PM

Registered: 02/19/2015
Posts: 46

THANK YOU.

(I would guess that this probably contributes to why people go through these 020 tranmission so quick, and why those who are smart upgrade as soon as possible to something like the 02A)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2015 05:21PM by fabianp.

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danster
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danster

Re: MK3 Jetta build
March 31, 2015 07:33AM

Registered: 01/04/2013
Posts: 409

There is a bit more gearbox info in this thread. Including crownwheel bolt sizes.

http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?7,103092,103135#msg-103135

Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

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mwalters
Matt Walters
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mwalters

Re: MK3 Jetta build
March 31, 2015 11:11AM

Registered: 02/21/2012
Posts: 7

Quote
DexterVW
I haven't stage rallyed my Mk3 yet (only rallyxed) but heres what I don't like so far

CV joints
o2o transmissions (use an O2A with a cable shifter from a mk4 and ditch the evil linkages)
CV joints
MK3 rear calipers (use mk4's, the ebrake doesn't bind on in cold temps)
Rear stub axles (also going to mk4 soon.. probably with GLI vented rear rotors)
CV joints

More will come I'm sure.. but i'm pretty happy overall

Not sure about this, my mk4 GLI ('03, 24v) has solid rears.

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Josh Wimpey
Josh Wimpey
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Josh Wimpey

Re: MK3 Jetta build
March 31, 2015 11:22AM

Registered: 12/27/2006
Posts: 649

Quote
fabianp
THANK YOU.

(I would guess that this probably contributes to why people go through these 020 tranmission so quick, and why those who are smart upgrade as soon as possible to something like the 02A)

Not sure where you get that information from. The 020 is a perfectly fine transmission and lots and lots of people run them without problem. They are better than the 02A/02J boxes in a number of ways:

1) they are about 23lbs lighter
2) They use the smaller clutch-flywheel-pressure plate setup which saves even more weight.
3) The cable shifters are a known weak spot. The rod shifters work great if you start with fresh rubber & plastic bits.

020 weaknesses relative to 02A/)2J
1) Can handle less torque
2) Cast aluminum trans-mount arm is weaker due to shift linkage mounting

It used to be the case that the 020 was getting hard to get parts for but now there are more options than there were 10 years ago and no reason to abandon the 020.

____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf

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DexterVW
David Baker
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DexterVW

Re: MK3 Jetta build
March 31, 2015 12:08PM

Registered: 11/20/2008
Posts: 290

Quote
mwalters

Quote
DexterVW
I haven't stage rallyed my Mk3 yet (only rallyxed) but heres what I don't like so far

CV joints
o2o transmissions (use an O2A with a cable shifter from a mk4 and ditch the evil linkages)
CV joints
MK3 rear calipers (use mk4's, the ebrake doesn't bind on in cold temps)
Rear stub axles (also going to mk4 soon.. probably with GLI vented rear rotors)
CV joints

More will come I'm sure.. but i'm pretty happy overall

Not sure about this, my mk4 GLI ('03, 24v) has solid rears.

Sorry I was mistaken, it was 20th/337's

http://www.parts4vws.com/catalog/product_detail.asp?PartNumber=10%2E1ConvKit+%2F+Mintex

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fabianp
PIERCE FABIAN
Junior Moderator
Location: Vancouver, BC
Join Date: 02/19/2015
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 46

Rally Car:
'96 Jetta

fabianp

Re: MK3 Jetta build
March 31, 2015 12:21PM

Registered: 02/19/2015
Posts: 46

Quote
Josh Wimpey

Quote
fabianp
THANK YOU.

(I would guess that this probably contributes to why people go through these 020 tranmission so quick, and why those who are smart upgrade as soon as possible to something like the 02A)

Not sure where you get that information from. The 020 is a perfectly fine transmission and lots and lots of people run them without problem. They are better than the 02A/02J boxes in a number of ways:

1) they are about 23lbs lighter
2) They use the smaller clutch-flywheel-pressure plate setup which saves even more weight.
3) The cable shifters are a known weak spot. The rod shifters work great if you start with fresh rubber & plastic bits.

020 weaknesses relative to 02A/)2J
1) Can handle less torque
2) Cast aluminum trans-mount arm is weaker due to shift linkage mounting

It used to be the case that the 020 was getting hard to get parts for but now there are more options than there were 10 years ago and no reason to abandon the 020.

Youe right, it is certainly a matter of priorities just like you have mentioned above. I know many of you guys apreciate the 020 (of various ages and configurations), and others prefer to avoid them. Its great to hear infput from both side.
Thanks so much.

For this application, I'm not crazy about the idea of running an even older 4th gear on a skinnier counter shaft (22mm) compared to the relatively unused stock 4th gear on the larger diameter counter shaft(24), but beggars can't be choosers in this case, I suppose. If this is what I need to do to make use of the 4.46 final drive R/P work in the 020 that I have got ... then I guess thats what is going to have to happen.

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danster
Haggis Muncher
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danster

Re: MK3 Jetta build
March 31, 2015 12:43PM

Registered: 01/04/2013
Posts: 409

You could always look at it this way, the smaller 22mm shaft means the actual gear has more meat on it.
I haven't heard of the shaft splines failing before.

I also notice from the pic posted above that the MTS output / pinion shaft is shorter than the stock part, and as a result it does not make use of the outer bearing for support in the 5th gear housing.

Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

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Josh Wimpey
Josh Wimpey
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Josh Wimpey

Re: MK3 Jetta build
March 31, 2015 02:34PM

Registered: 12/27/2006
Posts: 649

No need for vented rears, they will just get packed full of dirt & mud anyway.

The rear brakes do virtually nothing. At static ride, the rear wheels each have less than 400lbs over them and as soon as you hit the brakes, it is far far less than that... In addition, we have 'blued' the rear rotors in the past with zero consequences on tarmac. The vented rotors just cost more, weight more, and require unobtainium calipers and carriers.

Quote
DexterVW

Quote
mwalters

Quote
DexterVW
I haven't stage rallyed my Mk3 yet (only rallyxed) but heres what I don't like so far

CV joints
o2o transmissions (use an O2A with a cable shifter from a mk4 and ditch the evil linkages)
CV joints
MK3 rear calipers (use mk4's, the ebrake doesn't bind on in cold temps)
Rear stub axles (also going to mk4 soon.. probably with GLI vented rear rotors)
CV joints

More will come I'm sure.. but i'm pretty happy overall

Not sure about this, my mk4 GLI ('03, 24v) has solid rears.

Sorry I was mistaken, it was 20th/337's

http://www.parts4vws.com/catalog/product_detail.asp?PartNumber=10%2E1ConvKit+%2F+Mintex

____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf

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fabianp
PIERCE FABIAN
Junior Moderator
Location: Vancouver, BC
Join Date: 02/19/2015
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 46

Rally Car:
'96 Jetta

fabianp

Re: MK3 Jetta build
August 31, 2015 03:39PM

Registered: 02/19/2015
Posts: 46

...some cage-in-progress shots.
Nice toight fit.

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fabianp
PIERCE FABIAN
Junior Moderator
Location: Vancouver, BC
Join Date: 02/19/2015
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 46

Rally Car:
'96 Jetta

fabianp

Re: MK3 Jetta build
August 31, 2015 03:49PM

Registered: 02/19/2015
Posts: 46

Not sure if I posted these yet, but look how shiny they are. Can't wait to actually have them in the car and not just sitting in storage.
Behold JVL sooper bitchin' suspenders...

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