FWD w/welded Diff
Posted by ElectroTech
ElectroTech Steve Wheeler Mod Moderator Location: Fork Lake, Alberta Join Date: 06/09/2015 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 336 Rally Car: 1992 Golf |
I've read through all 60 pages in the construction forum and read the few threads regarding welded diffs and would like to know if many guys have gone that route on their FWD cars.
For me it would be in a MK2 VW with an 020 trans. From a budget standpoint saving the cost of a proper diff would free up some cash to use elsewhere. Power means nothing if you cannot control it! |
MattP Matt Pullen Elite Moderator Location: Calgary Join Date: 10/22/2013 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 282 Rally Car: 2002 Ford StRanger |
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ElectroTech Steve Wheeler Mod Moderator Location: Fork Lake, Alberta Join Date: 06/09/2015 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 336 Rally Car: 1992 Golf |
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MattP Matt Pullen Elite Moderator Location: Calgary Join Date: 10/22/2013 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 282 Rally Car: 2002 Ford StRanger |
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ElectroTech Steve Wheeler Mod Moderator Location: Fork Lake, Alberta Join Date: 06/09/2015 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 336 Rally Car: 1992 Golf |
I'd run welded or spool for sure in a ranger tons of 9" stuff out there too.
I'm kinda thinking that with PS and CVs it's not that bad with a welded diff on a FWD, pretty sure if you aren't mindful you could break things pretty easy. I run a diesel with 7 times the torque and you can break shit at will if so inclined. Anyone have some seat time in a FWD with welded/spooled front diff? Power means nothing if you cannot control it! |
Snidewhips Jeremy Livingston Ultra Moderator Location: Edmonton Alberta Canuckistan Join Date: 05/23/2013 Posts: 277 Rally Car: 1990 acura integra, 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe |
i don't know jack but do know fwd plus steering angle plus throttle equals cv hardship. i'm welding and installing hydraulic hand brake to decrease steering input for tighter stuffs hence saving cvs from blah blah blah. unless someone buys my gen2 crx/integra hotbits. then i'm building a truck. matts basically my hero
All bridges burnt, island life is beauty |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Godlike Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
None myself since I've always had a good Salisbury type all steel LSD which I would set the breakaway to anywhere from 90 ft/lbs to 120...No power steering.. but importantly equal length driveshafts, very good postition of box (no screwy driveshaft angles) So despite manual rack--2,2 turns-----my tight diff was fine on gravel Now 2 friends did do the welded diff thing.. One pulled it out in 1 day.. Honda with weird driveshaft lengths like 15" one side and 4 feet on the other. Horrible he said, insane..But that was low power, snow tires, manual steering. The other was in Omni GLH for which there was no viable option and the diff was markedly smaller than my little Saab diff.. Eventually he had equal length driveshfts thanks to the "support bearing" deal bolted to the block. He was a fan of welded... Turbo power, quick steering--2.5 turns You could "limp out" whenever the driveshafts would break.. I wouldn't think of it in a Golf. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
ElectroTech Steve Wheeler Mod Moderator Location: Fork Lake, Alberta Join Date: 06/09/2015 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 336 Rally Car: 1992 Golf |
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john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Godlike Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Tests with WRC level fwd heroes, both really the last men to win WRC events in FWD cars so they were good and consistent --showed 1 sec per km quicker with PS... It means you can set the diff to a stiffer breakaway, for more grip and have easy steering... Only drawback is specifically Golf related and thats the poor---low---placement of the PS pump...creative bracketry to raise the pump sounds do-able...and easier than the electric column some people have tried. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
ElectroTech Steve Wheeler Mod Moderator Location: Fork Lake, Alberta Join Date: 06/09/2015 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 336 Rally Car: 1992 Golf |
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DG_Rally Dave Grenwis Super Moderator Location: Minneapolis, MN Join Date: 08/16/2012 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 125 Rally Car: '92 VW Golf |
I've been running a welded 02a for the last 3 events (6 days of racing). 1st event I had no power steering and no seat time learning how to drive it, that sucked. The last 2 events with power steering I got used to it and like it. With PS its not bad at all on the road or transits. I don't even mind driving it around town. It takes a while to get used to the driving style on gravel, you need to give it gas to turn. It was hard to break the habit of lifting while braking or oh shit moments but you can't if you want to steer, never lift. I'll have to knock on wood after saying this but I haven't had any drive shaft issues. The bolts that go from the inner CV to the transmission flanges need to be looked after because I've found them to get really loose after a day of rallying. I know people that have had reliability issues with welded 020's but I don't have any experience with that. Personally, I think it is totally worth it if you want save money for something else like a final drive. LSD's are expensive and I haven't heard an argument that supports them being sooo much better than a welded diff for rally, maybe a just a little better. You can still break axles with an LSD but you can't drive out on a broken one like you can with welded. It's a huge upgrade over running an open diff.
Dave Grenwis - DG Rally - www.dgrally.com |
Pete Pete Remner Godlike Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
That's the FWD that I drove with a welded diff... Was somebody's ex PGT car or something. Sometime between the 80s and when I drove it the GLH rack disappeared and a 4 turn base Omni rack went in. Which made it really suck, but damned if the car didn't go wherever the front tires were pointed as long as you were on the throttle. Off the throttle the steering was useless, maybe would have been better if it wasn't like spinning a rudder wheel. Pete Remner Cleveland, Ohio 1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing) 1978 Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver. |
ElectroTech Steve Wheeler Mod Moderator Location: Fork Lake, Alberta Join Date: 06/09/2015 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 336 Rally Car: 1992 Golf |
Hey man, with the loosening bolts I'd bet your inner and outer CVs are not "timed" together, meaning that if you had the boots off both ends the bearings should line up perfectly, otherwise they will work against each other a little tiny bit, this is really easy to see with u-joints since it's just 2 yokes needing to line up. Probably only off by one or 2 splines. Power means nothing if you cannot control it! |
BobOfTheFuture Rob Ultra Moderator Location: LI, NY Join Date: 09/25/2010 Age: Settling Down Posts: 629 Rally Car: None, anymore. |
Wow! I guess it would be as important, or more so for RWD too? Enablers, All of you. |
DG_Rally Dave Grenwis Super Moderator Location: Minneapolis, MN Join Date: 08/16/2012 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 125 Rally Car: '92 VW Golf |
That's very possible. I'll check them out the next time I have them out. Thanks! Dave Grenwis - DG Rally - www.dgrally.com |
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