Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class

So confused. Even in the truly idiotic world of "stage tuning" there is no such thing as a stage-1 'tune' that includes an up-sized turbo.


Post your dyno plot so we can see what this torque curve looks like.

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One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf

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Josh Wimpey
So confused. Even in the truly idiotic world of "stage tuning" there is no such thing as a stage-1 'tune' that includes an up-sized turbo.


Josh; Where are you getting an "up-sized turbo" from? The engine, and the ECU are from a Mk. 1 8N chassis Audi TT-Q, using the AMU block, 225 Hp 1.8T with the K04. It's the stock turbo for that engine; and the Eurodyne Maestro tune is the correct one for the Audi engine/ecu.

You guys all seem to read in, what you want to read into each one of these threads. But none of you pay any F-ing attention to what is actually going on.

1) The engine is the Audi 225 Hp 1.8T; Not the VW 180 Hp 1.8T.
2) The owner of the shop TOLD me not to tune it. Every tune available; and they offer APR, Eurodyne, Unitronic, REVO, COBB, and a couple of others - make the torque curve less linear, and more spiky (sp.?).
3) The Maestro tune is on their so we can do data logging, and look at the engine parameters - and see what is going on - NOT to tune the engine for Hp or Tq. Only to adjust, to make both curves more linear to try to put the power down smoothly.
4) Only one dyno run has been done (3 pulls) to establish the baseline.

Notes from Event number two; Build continuation from event number one.

We realized at the end of the test & tune, that there was no life left in the front strut bushings. So I ordered up new powerflex purple strut bushings from USRT, and while I was at it, I ordered a powerflex black series steering rack bushing. So we installed those, along with new strut bearings, a couple of days before event number two. We also finally got around to installing the stud conversion kit I've had laying around for a couple of months, and wiring up the Hella 4000's.

I cannot believe the difference in just RX that the bushings were going to make. I know in road racing, and in Auto-X; but was not expecting to "feel" it in the dirt. Huge difference from blown, worn-out stock rubber. I'm going to put another order in to USRT next week, and get the solid aluminum sub-frame bushings, and the powerflex purple lower control arm bushings; and change all of those out before the next event. Car is just so much tighter.

Realized the mount I designed for the Hellas worked, but I did not build any adjustability into it. Plenty of beam for the night race; but it wasn't nearly far enough out to keep my speeds where I wanted them. Going to fabricate three inch risers, and buy some old style GM suspension shims to mount between the lights and the risers, so I can adjust the beams much further out then they currently are.

Keep having coolant leak problems. Had a major one at the drivers school last month. Had another one yesterday in the first session. Lost the upper radiator hose. Luckily it was long enough, my crew chief was able to cut off the split, and still secure it, while I was out in my workers position. This kept us up and running for the second session, and even though I lost two runs in the first; we didn't get DNF'd, and actually placed for season points.

This has been two events in a row with missed runs becasue of coolant issues. So I am ordering all coolant hoses in reinforced silicone and replacing everything on the engine. I realized that both the engine and the chassis are 130K+ miles, and I don't know what the maintenance records were, so some of those hoses could be stock. So I'm not upset; but I am still learning.

Notes from earlier in the build thread.

I am extremely grateful that all of the feedback on this thread talked me out of bigger brakes and bigger wheels. The used 15" rally tires have been holding up well, and saved me a lot of money over buying custom unusable set-ups. The rear brakes are barely ever used in RX, so I am happy I have the ones off of the TT, but understand they were not needed. The stock front GTI stuff is plenty; and when I go to new rotors and pads matched up; I know I will still see a difference again. I am just starting to see wear on the outer lugs of the Michelin rally tires; so after the next event I am going to rotate them front to rear. I think I will get an entire season of RX out of these used ones, then sell them to another competitor in a Stock class that wants to run real rally tires, and buy a brand new set of DMacks in the 185 size for next season. I will probably run my 205 DMacks at Daytona International just so I have more tread on the ground.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2017 03:14PM by DanielSL.

What are you doing to identify the root cause of hoses that last hundreds of thousands of miles blowing? I'd be testing the cap at a minimum.

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Power means nothing if you cannot control it!

The first failure was the weird VAG 4-way connector, oem plastic piece. We replaced it with a new one from the shop for that weekend. I ended up buying the aftermarket upgraded aluminum kit, that replaces 4 different oem plastic components with aluminum. It took care of the coolant distribution pipe (4-way), the thermostat housing, the split pipe, and the coolant flange.
Now the hoses are letting go, so I told my crew chief to pressure test the system with the car back at the shop this week. I'll replace all of the coolant hoses with reinforced if I have time. Only three weeks to event number three.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2017 05:09PM by DanielSL.

Dan, I am paying attention but it is hard to follow given the sheer number of poor choices you have made

The poly bushings are a big no-no in the control arms. They will tear. Use the R32 or TT solid bushings.

I think you will find that even the hard strut bushings will fail in short order on any VW. Replace wither with Subaru top mounts or real rally camber/castor adjustable top mounts. Forget any kind of street camber plate setup that is available as they are all junk for rally.

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One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf

Josh;

I am using the TT bushings in the rear of the LCA's. That is what USRT recommends. But for the fronts, I am using the polys, also at their recommendation, as I have pre-recall LCA's.

For adjustable strut top mounts; HotBits is making me up a set with custom upper spacers that will work with factory style front struts, instead of coil-overs that are just way out of my budget. Peter has to custom fabricate the pieces still, and he is having a crazy season himself. I have their rear suspension with reservoir shocks, and I love their products. But for RX, I am not spending that type of money on front coil-overs.

Edit:

Another change in the plans. I found a pair of Eibach S.S. bodied coil-over fronts cheap. So I am going to mount the HotBits 30 Kg springs on those and run them instead of the oem VW Mk.4 fronts with R32 springs. So now I'll be running HotBits springs front and rear (30 / 25), with the HotBits rear reservoir shocks. Still having Peter order me the front HB upper adjustable camber plates. Kind of sucks having no front adjustment for the alignment settings, besides toe.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2017 04:26PM by DanielSL.

Only build updates for event number three are the following;

Finally finished installing the mud-flaps. Found the darned elusive coolant leak that was only happening at high rpm's. Repaired that. Installed a spare tire tie-down strap from Rally.Build. Didn't need it, but wanted it to have spare on board at all times. Replaced a couple of breather hoses that had torn with reinforced silicone bits.

Nothing special, just getting ready for the next event, which is tomorrow.

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DanielSL
Installed a spare tire tie-down strap from Rally.Build. DIDN'T NEED IT, but wanted it to have spare on board at all times.

Perhaps the epitome of this build, from the man himself.

I just spent almost an hour, painfully reading through this thread and I seriously have to ask, are you fucking with us? At like page 30 I was starting to countdown the dates until April 1st thinking this is a massive April Fools joke, but that day has come and gone now....
I thought I overthought shit! Ha! I wasted a good amount of time and money prepping a car for stage that shouldn't have been prepped from the get go, spent energy on 3 different motor swaps, acquired all sorts of random suspension shit trying it make work, etc etc etc. I should have just left well enough alone and took the advice from the droves of fellas in the rally world and just got the fucking thing on stage bone stock. That cars long gone and I'm seriously about to pull the trigger on a (gasp) Xratty and follow the well defined principal of "KISS." Building cars is fun but not nearly as fun as driving them.

Well Dane, if I had tried to drive this one "bone stocK", it would have been pretty un-eventful - considering it was bought as a rolling chassis with no engine/trans, or interior.

I guess I'm ahead of you by one point (or 2), as I only put one engine in. Considering it's still a 1.8T like the oem offering, it wasn't even really a "swap". Technically Yes, but not really.

I learned my mistakes from this build. Primarily, don't ask Stage Rally guys their advice for a RallyCross build. I should have just gone with the advice of the other, friendly, helpful competitors I had met last year. But as I want to do Rally Sprints, and eventually at least try SandBlast; I figured I would dive in head first.

We bought my wife her car; an 88' Firebird to build in Prepared Rear for next year. Building that car, I will not do a thread or worry about "advice". I'm going to build it the way she wants to, because she is the one driving it - and that's all that should matter.

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DanielSL

I learned my mistakes from this build. Primarily, don't ask Stage Rally guys their advice for a RallyCross build.

No, as someone who won many many many a rallycross (grass-o-cross, dirt-o-cross, ice-o-cross, and Euro-style rallycross) over the past 18 years, I can assure you that you are doing it even more wrong for rallycross than you would be with the same prep for stage rally.

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____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2017 10:40AM by Josh Wimpey.

I think the only work Dan has left to carry out now is the installation of the in car entertainment system.
That's bound to generate another few pages discussing the best head unit, amp, 6x9s and 12" sub so he can race whilst blasting out...

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Disappointingly not yet a Jackass