Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class

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Josh Wimpey

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DanielSL
USRT has a boost controller that works in-line with the ECU. Maybe I can use that in conjunction to make sure the boost doesn't come in too early in the powerband. Basically creating the car to react like a NA engine until 3,000 rpm or so. I will have to look into it more with the staff over there.

The VW ECU is WAY WAY WAY more capable than you know. There are tables in the factory ECU that can be unlocked for launch control and torque management.

BTW, a naturally aspirated 1.8 low-compression engine below 3000 rpm is going to make like 30hp and 40tq...

It seems you may be bench-racing well above your engineering knowledge base.

I really, really, really like Leon's setup.

It's a 16v engine with a fancy intake manifold. No turbo. He says it makes 135whp but that seems low for what it is. But he also says, on course, he's always between 5000 and 8000rpm. That sounds like a winner to me, the engine becomes negative-feedback with respect to wheelspin. Simple and linear.

Leave the turbos for the AWD guys who have the grip to exploit the power. Two wheel drive requires more finesse than can be gained from a turbo engine.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

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Pete

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Josh Wimpey


It seems you may be bench-racing well above your engineering knowledge base.

I really, really, really like Leon's setup.


Leave the turbos for the AWD guys who have the grip to exploit the power. FRONT wheel drive requires more finesse than can be gained from a turbo engine.

FWD turbo demands a good LSD and STRONG CVs and driveshafts and lots of nice fresh tires..

And even then its a fight

Simply not worth the bother and cost...

Especially for grass-o-cross where guys can use SUVs and Mini-vans and pickups.

Josh said it well.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2016 09:51PM by john vanlandingham.

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john vanlandingham
Especially for grass-o-cross where guys can use SUVs and Mini-vans and pickups.

Josh said it well.

This is America. If it's got wheels, we'll compete with it somehow.

I mean, people drag race SUVs and minivans (I repeat myself) and pickups, and autocross them, and roadrace them, and I've seen examples of all three at stage rally, so what's the difference?

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

I was just directed to the fine entertainment in this build thread.......I NEED MORE POPCORN!!! Grass-o-cross like JV says....less is more! There is alot of the eastern crue here with great input. Alot of the western and mid atlantic preaching the same! Seems like more seat time in dirt is a great start....less internet forum racing.

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No need to reinvent the wheel!

Listen to what these guys are saying! You can take a slow-ass street car and do fine rallycrossing it if you drive it right.

Back in the late '90's in upstate New York, the local region had their own rallycross series before SCCA actually officially adopted it.

I ran one in October 2000 called "Irish Hills" in my stock 1991 Nissan Sentra (1.6 liter...110 hp). I had never rallycrossed, and had never driven FWD in anger.

I had some KYB AGX's, removed the sway bars, and mounted some Silverstone rally tires on the stock 13" x 5" rims. Tiny 9.6" brake rotors. 7" rear drum brakes. No limited slip differential.

It was a 2 day event, and they even ran it at night.

Day one I did okay, finished midpack among 60 cars. 2/3rds of the cars entered were stage rally prepped cars, and rally drivers. About a third of the field was 4wd, maybe 1/2 of those turbocharged.

Day two I got a feel for driving FWD and learning how rally tires feel. There were 43 cars entered day 2. I finished 4th overall, and first 2wd.

So I embarrassed a lot of higher hp 4wd cars with my (maybe) 100 hp Fwd open-diff, 190,000 mile crap can daily driver.

It's not about the power, or the car.

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Opel is a 4-letter word...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10498579@N07/sets/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2016 02:34PM by Ascona73.

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Ascona73
Listen to what these guys are saying! You can take a slow-ass street car and do fine rallycrossing it if you drive it right.

Back in the late '90's in upstate New York, the local region had their own rallycross series before SCCA actually officially adopted it.

I ran one in October 2000 called "Irish Hills" in my stock 1991 Nissan Sentra (1.6 liter...110 hp). I had never rallycrossed, and had never driven FWD in anger.

I had some KYB AGX's, removed the sway bars, and mounted some Silverstone rally tires on the stock 13" x 5" rims. Tiny 9.6" brake rotors. 7" rear drum brakes. No limited slip differential.

It was a 2 day event, and they even ran it at night.

Day one I did okay, finished midpack among 60 cars. 2/3rds of the cars entered were stage rally prepped cars, and rally drivers. About a third of the field was 4wd, maybe 1/2 of those turbocharged.

Day two I got a feel for driving FWD and learning how rally tires feel. There were 43 cars entered day 2. I finished 4th overall, and first 2wd.

So I embarrassed a lot of higher hp 4wd cars with my (maybe) 100 hp Fwd open-diff, 190,000 mile crap can daily driver.

It's not about the power, or the car.

The No1 rule above all others for doctors is "First do no harm"..

I tell guys in a) the selection of the car, and b) the prep and c0 the driving a modded form of that:
First do no stupid..

This should be carved into stone and hung from chains in the garage just low enough that if you're not paying attention when walking around you whack into it right in the forehead---just to help remind you to pay attention..

This guy needs to do that and put a couple of spotlights on it


Oh the 2,2 Head is here..Yummy...Just confirmed a couple of hours ago that we CAN make in-house some nice roller tip rockers...My CNC mill guy makes his own rods and even pistons in house--as well as fuel pump and even whole heads and he has made rockers for the 3 and 4 valve heads he made years ago... So I'll drop off a carved up head and lifter and we're going to see what it'll take..For a CIH its all low stress--he's used to 500 lbs on the seat and over 1200 pounds overr the nose...this should be easy. Think there's any demand for a few sets?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Oh the 2,2 Head is here..Yummy...Just confirmed a couple of hours ago that we CAN make in-house some nice roller tip rockers...My CNC mill guy makes his own rods and even pistons in house--as well as fuel pump and even whole heads and he has made rockers for the 3 and 4 valve heads he made years ago... So I'll drop off a carved up head and lifter and we're going to see what it'll take..For a CIH its all low stress--he's used to 500 lbs on the seat and over 1200 pounds overr the nose...this should be easy. Think there's any demand for a few sets?

Cool. I'll start another Opel related thread so we don't clutter up this guy's thread any more than it already is.

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Opel is a 4-letter word...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10498579@N07/sets/

Stage Five:

After paying attention to all of the constructive criticism on multiple sites, I have finally secured a set of five 15" alloys that clearance the GTi brakes. Sizing is 15" x 6", and is a stock golf/jetta wheel, so offset was not an issue.

I will be using DMack DMG2 tires in a 185/70/15 sizing. Picking up a set of 5, so I will have a spare mounted on board. Keeping my eyes open for another set of wheels, so I can mount a set of snow tires for differing conditions. Probably going to use either Firestone Winterforce, or Hankook tires for those.

While installing the wheels, I also did the wheel stud conversion at the same time. Hardened steel studs, with enough length to allow up to 20mm spacers, if ever needed with different wheel/tire choices.

Edit:

Just found a used set of DMack Grippa tires in 205/65/15. I am going to use these as my back-ups instead of snow or ice tires. They still have 70-75% of their tread left, and were stored inside, so in overall very good condition. I know they are wider then what everyone has suggested, but for $200 a set, they work great in the budget. And it was a lot easier to find used 15x7 wheels for the car. From what I have researched, it seems the Grippa series turned into the DMG2 now being offered, so I am hoping they were a good find.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2016 05:43AM by DanielSL.

Can't argue with these for used. Wider than I wanted, so these will be dedicated for events where the sand is harder packed, or conditions are more muddy. Will keep the 185/70 new set for the normal Florida sugar sand conditions.

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DanielSL
Wider than I wanted, so these will be dedicated for events where the sand is harder packed, or conditions are more muddy. .

One does not use wide tires in muddy conditions, you use marrow..
It is not the lbs/sq-in it is the shape of the footprint... whatever

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

In 4wd trucks, awd trucks, and atv's; wider is used for mud, narrower in sand. If that's different in rally, than so be it. The point is I wasn't going to pass up such a good deal. As usual, go fuck off, John. Stay off my god damned thread.

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DanielSL
In 4wd trucks, awd trucks, and atv's; wider is used for mud, narrower in sand. If that's different in rally, than so be it.

I know an open tread does better in the mud. I rallycrossed an Opel with Kumho tires (more old-school design with open tread) and it did much better than I expected against a lot of the modern assymetrical tighter tread designs.

Maybe if you can get your hands on a grooving iron you could open up the tread a bit.

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Opel is a 4-letter word...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10498579@N07/sets/

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DanielSL
In 4wd trucks, awd trucks, and atv's; wider is used for mud, narrower in sand. If that's different in rally, than so be it. The point is I wasn't going to pass up such a good deal. As usual, go fuck off, John. Stay off my god damned thread.

Exactly backwards. Narrow in mud, wide for flotation in sand..

Amazing how virtually every single discreet idea you express is 100% of the time so completely wrong...

As for "your" thread, this is a discussion forum. If you do not want people correcting all the endless absurdities you post up, if you do not want discussion, then don't post anything and nobody will have to correct the nonsense you post.

On a personal note it is fascinating how you can be so consistantly 180 degrees wrong in such a wide array of ideas.. It ought to make you begin to get reflective on where you are getting your ideas, because clearly you are talking to other people who know equally nothing...

Scary.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Ascona;
Really great advice. I have a tire cutting tool in my box from when I ran ITB. After all of these years, I wonder if it even works anymore. But with these used tires, a great project to open them up some. I can actually get two more sets at the same price, and have already called dibs on one of them.
My Rovers all run Yokohama GeoLandar M/T's, and they are very open tread pattern tires. So I agree with our comments completely.
These tires were conex stored, and I cannot believe the condition they are in for their age. From my research, it looks like Grippas brought into U.S. and Canada were only labelled that way in 2011 and 2012.

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Ascona73

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DanielSL
In 4wd trucks, awd trucks, and atv's; wider is used for mud, narrower in sand. If that's different in rally, than so be it.

I know an open tread does better in the mud. I rallycrossed an Opel with Kumho tires (more old-school design with open tread) and it did much better than I expected against a lot of the modern assymetrical tighter tread designs.

Maybe if you can get your hands on a grooving iron you could open up the tread a bit.

Perfect point.

Hey what's the lifter OD for these Oldpiles?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.