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brake master cylinders

Posted by Eric Ewert 
Eric Ewert
Eric Ewert
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Location: Calgary, Ab
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Rally Car:
volvo 240


brake master cylinders
December 18, 2017 12:57AM
Im sick of the brake bias volvo offers standard with the 240 (and yes the rear limiting valves have been removed) so looking at doing the typical dual masters/balance bar arrangement. Was going to order wilwood master cylinders. Just wondering if there is a drawback to using there compact masters over the standard ones? For whatever reason i can get them a bit cheaper. The only difference from what i can tell is they have a slightly shorter stroke length at 1.1 inch instead of 1.3 inch on the standard sized cylinders.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: brake master cylinders
December 18, 2017 03:51AM
Quote
Eric Ewert
Im sick of the brake bias volvo offers standard with the 240 (and yes the rear limiting valves have been removed) so looking at doing the typical dual masters/balance bar arrangement. Was going to order wilwood master cylinders. Just wondering if there is a drawback to using there compact masters over the standard ones? For whatever reason i can get them a bit cheaper. The only difference from what i can tell is they have a slightly shorter stroke length at 1.1 inch instead of 1.3 inch on the standard sized cylinders.

What particularly about the bias are you sick of?



John Vanlandingham
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Vincent Gagnon
The same thing that I just wrote
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Re: brake master cylinders
December 18, 2017 07:14AM
What the paleolithic one says.
What seems to be the problem?
Why not simply play with the brake pads?



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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: brake master cylinders
December 18, 2017 03:34PM
Quote
Vincent Gagnon
What the paleolithic one says.
What seems to be the problem?
Why not simply play with the brake pads?

Play with pads might work..rear pads there's a huge variety because its same pad as 911 Portch up to or thru 74-75...But that's dodgy in a way..Buy some pads, try--in whatever conditions, on some road you practice 100 times and you conclude it is--or isn't bitchin..Then go buy more pads and try them, and buy other pads and>>

Until he tells us more what the problem is we can't really say much from "I'm sick of the brake bias"

I think he wants to spend money and get some keen-o spiff alloy hats and Willwood alloy calipers...
That's what I think...
Don't be a fucking spoil-sport Vince and ask him how many events he's done before concluding he needs to spend a lotta dough...or i will taunt you a second time and call you French!



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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CALL +1 206 431-9696
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Eric Ewert
Eric Ewert
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Re: brake master cylinders
December 18, 2017 04:34PM
The fact that I can lock the fronts waaaaayyy too early. Its like the rear brakes are hardly there. They will lock with enough effort, but not till the fronts are long since locked up. fresh pads/ rotors all around and bed in. Rear calipers have the benefit of being refurbished and fresh too.
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MattP
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Re: brake master cylinders
December 18, 2017 04:46PM
Eric, does it have the rear proportioning valve?



Yes, it's a Ranger.
Xr4Ti, it is rwd and was made in Germany.
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Eric Ewert
Eric Ewert
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volvo 240


Re: brake master cylinders
December 18, 2017 04:59PM
Matt, if you are referring to the factory one on the rear line it's been removed. It has a wilwood proportioning (limiting) valve installed in the rear line however it remains wide open because there is no point in limiting the small amount of rear brake I have haha! angry smiley
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john vanlandingham
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Re: brake master cylinders
December 18, 2017 05:43PM
Quote
Eric Ewert
The fact that I can lock the fronts waaaaayyy too early. Its like the rear brakes are hardly there. They will lock with enough effort, but not till the fronts are long since locked up. fresh pads/ rotors all around and bed in. Rear calipers have the benefit of being refurbished and fresh too.

Conclusion: fawking weird.

Wait! I think those gwddam things have stepped bore masters! Double check that...



John Vanlandingham
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Philippe Bellefleur
same as above
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Volvo 740 imposed by vince, might be a 240... I think it will be a 240.



Re: brake master cylinders
December 18, 2017 08:05PM
Quote
Vincent Gagnon
Why not simply play with the brake pads?

That might cause issues with the pads generating different friction coefficients at different temps, your bias might vary with temperature. like john sez, lotta money to find the answer ya want.
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Philippe Bellefleur
same as above
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Rally Car:
Volvo 740 imposed by vince, might be a 240... I think it will be a 240.



Re: brake master cylinders
December 18, 2017 08:14PM
Hey Vince, didn't we not have this kind of issue when we setup the brakes on the 740 (we were able to lock the rears easy until the bias valve was tweaked)? Not knowing much about 240's, do they have different masters compared to the 740 like the mention of stepped bore?
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: brake master cylinders
December 18, 2017 08:18PM
Quote
Philippe Bellefleur
Quote
Vincent Gagnon
Why not simply play with the brake pads?

That might cause issues with the pads generating different friction coefficients at different temps, your bias might vary with temperature. like john sez, lotta money to find the answer ya want.

Uh uh uh! careful mon sewer! I implied that it is potentially an expensive way..
But the warm up thing I say meh! once the pads ARE warmed up, the pad is supposed to be what ever it is.....So the driver just warms them up..pas de problem bro.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Philippe Bellefleur
same as above
Junior Moderator
Location: Laval (slowly moving back towards the woods)
Join Date: 03/12/2016
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 84

Rally Car:
Volvo 740 imposed by vince, might be a 240... I think it will be a 240.



Re: brake master cylinders
December 18, 2017 08:22PM
Just saying because i'm more used to road racing were you see the same thing over and over for very short cycles of maybe 1 min to 2 min laps intensely. a bit like comparing motocross to enduro (another thing i used to do). was wondering if you were going to say that.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Saab 96 V4



Re: brake master cylinders
December 18, 2017 08:28PM
Quote
Philippe Bellefleur
Hey Vince, didn't we not have this kind of issue when we setup the brakes on the 740 (we were able to lock the rears easy until the bias valve was tweaked)? Not knowing much about 240's, do they have different masters compared to the 740 like the mention of stepped bore?

Yeah I'm thinking that's where the difference must lie..Some annoying thing I can't put fingers on but I think the 240s have 2 different bores in the master...or some fuckery.. Frankly I think 240 was the height of Volvos injur-near's stupid Luthern excessive worry the way the brakes are split and plumbed...
Maybe the simple thing is duals...lever ratio ain't so bad on Volvo pedals, and modding the pedal is simple, reinforcing the firewall is simple, and doubling up the pedal box is easy so OK...why snot?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Philippe Bellefleur
same as above
Junior Moderator
Location: Laval (slowly moving back towards the woods)
Join Date: 03/12/2016
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 84

Rally Car:
Volvo 740 imposed by vince, might be a 240... I think it will be a 240.



Re: brake master cylinders
December 18, 2017 08:33PM
Stupid injur-nears, tell me about that! I work for one that if he didn't mention that he studied at McGill (ouf!) i would of thought he went to some finance school...
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Vincent Gagnon
The same thing that I just wrote
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Location: Québec
Join Date: 03/12/2016
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Volvo 740



Re: brake master cylinders
December 19, 2017 07:29AM
Quote
Philippe Bellefleur
Hey Vince, didn't we not have this kind of issue when we setup the brakes on the 740 (we were able to lock the rears easy until the bias valve was tweaked)? Not knowing much about 240's, do they have different masters compared to the 740 like the mention of stepped bore?

No, it was the other way around. I have the same kind of "restrictor" valve as Eric plumbed on the line that goes to the rear brake. If the valve was not completely open, the front would lock waaaaaaaaaay too soon. In other words, the valve was useless. I have an old 240 master somewhere, I'll take it apart and take a look a this shit.



Ask for work.
If they don't give you work, ask for bread.
If they do not give you work or bread, then take bread.

- Emma Goldman
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