kevlar skidpan

Has anyone here built a kevlar skidpan and if so, can you impart your knowledge to the group?

Things I'm interested in knowing is, how many layers/how thick, what kind of epoxy, any carbon fiber in there, etc.

Thanks.

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She's screamn' fer eet!
Rallyho
Mike White
http://www.facebook.com/rallyhomotorsports

I've not, but I was watching Steve of Salta do a Evo Kevlar setup. They did six layers of Kevlar under the floor pans, two layers in the wheel wells, and four layers on the fuel tank. They had it on a rotisserie so flipped it over and laid and epoxyed it on then after it dried, cut and trimmed it with a body saw. The Kevlar cost $980, plus labor, plus about $120 per can for two cans of epoxy. Quite a waste of money and effort in my opinion, but whatever.

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Grant Hughes

Dude, the shell already weighs 4,600 lbs., why take the time to save five?

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Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

Oh hush. I'm sneaking up on the Gp2 min weight man!

Seriously, there may be a way for me to have some inexpensive...a lot less than what you're quoting Grant (which is about what I've heard locally) flat panels made up that I could bolt on.

I'm not a composites guy...barely understand metalurgy, so, what I'm trying to figure out is how many layers do I do for the primary skidpan, in what config is kevlar strong (compression, tension, both, etc).

Thanks guys.

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She's screamn' fer eet!
Rallyho
Mike White
http://www.facebook.com/rallyhomotorsports

IF you dont have a dead accurate scale, and an autoclave, dont bother. What you want is kevlar prepreg (its rolls of the kevler preimpregnated with the epoxy so you just "peel and stick) AND a source of vacuum to bag it, then an autoclave to control the pressure and temperature. Otherwise, your just makeing a really expensive flashy thing, and doing nothing good.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Is kevlar available in self-adhesive sheet form, like carbon fiber is? If it is, you could have a conventional alum, pan fabbed up and cover it in kevlar so it looks bling.

Actually, you could lay-up one ply of woven kevlar with epoxy right over the alum. as well.

Or, get some relatively cheap (stolen from boat yard) woven fiberglass, piss on it until it looks golden, let it dry and lay it up with polyester.

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Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

NoCoast Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- Quite a waste of money and effort in my
> opinion, but whatever.
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO

Doooooooooooooooood you're so negative.
How do you know if Mike has won the Maine Mega-millions or not.
Maybe he has, neener neener!!!

And the only reason he should be talking about what is obvious a rich boy plaything good for primarily bragging rights is IF he won Mega-Millions.

I mean really whats dropping a thou or 1200 bucks every few events as the things abrade all to hell when you could have a 6061 alloy plate for 1/10 the cost when you're rolling in the green?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Rallyho Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh hush. I'm sneaking up on the Gp2 min weight
> man!
>
> Seriously, there may be a way for me to have some
> inexpensive...a lot less than what you're quoting
> Grant (which is about what I've heard locally)
> flat panels made up that I could bolt on.
>
> I'm not a composites guy...barely understand
> metalurgy, so, what I'm trying to figure out is
> how many layers do I do for the primary skidpan,
> in what config is kevlar strong (compression,
> tension, both, etc).
>
> Thanks guys.
>
> Rallyho
> Mike White

Still pounding the pud, eh Mike?
What do you have fro a gearbox and final drive?
Got two pumps plumbed in the trunk?

Got some pistons in the motor that are goping to last with serious use?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Mike won't be pounding his own porpoise forevah, cuz the girls at Platinum Plus will do ANYTHING for a man with kevlah undergarments!

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Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

Ted- Yeah, Kevlar pre preg is what you described. Unless you mean a tape, like CF single directional tape (all fibers one way, no weaving) then Im not sure.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Still clubbn' the baby seal..yeah.

You guys are a laugh riot.

Hadn't though about the stuff wearing out...good point.

So, this stuff is epoxy prepreg, and the folks with it have a heated press and work with it every day.

I'm just trying to figure out if <IF> it's cheap enough, and could be had for about the same $$ as alum, it's gotta be worth consideration.

Now, have any of you monkeys ever layed one of these things up or know how it's done?

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She's screamn' fer eet!
Rallyho
Mike White
http://www.facebook.com/rallyhomotorsports

Hey John-

Yeah, got a proper r&p and gearing, the same ole h-block 8valve with the standard stuff inside. Stock tank at the moment with internal pump. Question on that, if I wanted to put external pump(s), how do I do a pickup and seal the hole in the stock tank?

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She's screamn' fer eet!
Rallyho
Mike White
http://www.facebook.com/rallyhomotorsports

Yeah, I've done it. And Yeah I have material. And yes, I used to do Aerospace stuff and learned all sorts of things

No, its not cheap.

Yes, its relativly easy to lay up.

Yes, the mold is a BITCH to make [well]

No, it wont be strong with out vacuum and autoclave... thats why plane and rocket parts arent made with a heat gun. Unless you have the tools dont bother with a skidplate.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Dazed_Driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, I've done it. And Yeah I have material. And
> yes, I used to do Aerospace stuff and learned all
> sorts of things
>
> No, its not cheap.
>
> Yes, its relativly easy to lay up.
>
> Yes, the mold is a BITCH to make
>
> No, it wont be strong with out vacuum and
> autoclave... thats why plane and rocket parts
> arent made with a heat gun. Unless you have the
> tools dont bother with a skidplate.
>
> Feisty Peacock?

That must have been a fun job. So the vacuum and the autoclave (an oven?) is to get the stuff dense enough and cured well enough?

A relatively heavier skid plate shouldn't be soo bad, at least it's weight on the bottom of the car.

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Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

Ok, before people think *I* designed aerospace parts... no. What I did was installed the autoclave, well, worked on that, at least.

Anyway. So, lets say you want to make two parts. A cube, and a flat panel. The panel is easiest, so we'll start there.

1. Get the vacuum tool ready. This thing is just a flat peice of aluminum with a gasket all the way around, a hinge, a top, and some sort of membrane that can suck down. Theres more too it, but I dont really understand how it works. I just know how to use it. So after you get the right size, clean it off, and place some of the release film on it. Because your part is flate, you can use this stuff. Its kinda like saran wrap but completly different. You get the idea.

2. Lay up your sheet. Depending on what your part is (structual/non) you either lay up 0-90* (look at the weave.. its obvious. Like wood grain) or 45*-45* or a combination there off. This is where engineers come into play. Sometimes you also use that tape I mentions with only unidirectional fibers. It all depends.

3. Now that your sheet is layed up, you place some breather cloth down, this is kinda like dense cotton balls made into a 3 foot wide roll. This stuff is for letting the epoxy roam around under the vacuum and it also soaks a bit of the extra up.

4. Close the lid, apply vacuum hose. You know have 14.7psi pressing your part together. Leave for the designated amount of time.

5. PLace in oven OR autoclave. Again, it depends what the part is for. Autoclaves will provide heat AND more pressure. They usually are purged off oxygen (so they dont blow up). I prefer the autoclaves just because the part "glasses" better. (The epoxy flows more freely and stuff is more shiny, haha)


For the cube, its all the same except you use a mold built on the bottom the vacuum tool (obviously no lid) and you use a vacuum bag to get the vacuum, no lid to close.



Side note... well, foot note? All the kevlar/Carbon fiber/fiberglass layed up where I worked was the prepreg kind. It allready has the proper amount of resin per wieght of cloth mixed into it. You literally peel and stick the stuff. Otherwise, with conventional, you can get too much or too little resin.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.