The Keyboard Rallyist would like to talk rules...

...as he's tired of being a keyboard rallyist!

I want to go PGT with the Galant, but it's not as easy as I would have thought, now that I've been going through the rules. Coming from the street scene, so much of the basics are just off limits. "Spirit of the class," I guess, but I've got some questions/concerns in a couple areas and would appreciate hearing the voice of experience if it doesn't mind chipping in.

For reference, I'm working through the RallyAmerika 2008 rules, as they are the toughest and stand to leave me better prepared for whatever down the road. I've only really gone through Article 10, plan on going though Article 5 next, and haven't touched any supplemental docs on the site, so if I'm missing something, please point me in the right direction.


* Shop Manual. I suspect a Chilton's manual won't cut it, but can the shop manual on-hand be on CD? Supposing I had the full shop manual on CD in PDF format, doesn't that make less to be carried in the rally car and allow for easier searching via laptop should a dispute be filed?

* Cooling System 1. I understand the "spirit of the class" and all that, but if my stocker fans shit the bed long ago and I'm running aftermarket slim-fans and related wire harnesses, is this illegal? Later in Article 10, it states that additional wires, fuses, and relays are allowed, but I see no mention of fan replacement.

* Cooling System 2. Likewise with running the smaller radiator from a 1G TEL. Aside from the 4WS and a longer wheelbase, the GVR4 is essentially a DSM. (I know. Slippery slope and all that.) I've already converted the thing over to use the TEL radiator as I had been planning on running an SRT4 FMIC on the car, but the rules prohibit the IC, so maybe this alternate radiator will have to go as well?


That's about it for now. I'm sure I'll have more questions down the road, but now that I have Volvo power getting me to work, repairs on the GVR4 should commence very soon. I hope to be driving it by the end of May at the latest. Then it's on to selling the Talon and funding my cage install. I may be the most low-budget entry at Prescott, but I really want to enter that event this year.

Thanks as always!

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

Hi Brian,
Lets analyze the important error word by word.
It all begins here:

(remember 8th Grade engine and sentence diagramming?)
I <---subject and verb--->want to..go PGT ..........with the Galant

See? All your problems are located in the first two words.

Just change it to OPEN so you can do whatever you want and problem is solved.
Fuck PGT.
Fuck P

Fuck stupid rules which everybody historically EVERYBODY CHEATS nonstop to circumvent..

And fuck asswipe bitches who protest shit like wrong year center consol trim.
Should have suspended licence for a year for UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT for that one.

There is no reason on the green earth to with free will saddle yourself with endless restrictions for a leisure time activity if there is any way to avoid it and you have the way: Open.


Where the hell is Mustafa, I'm calling him to come smack you upside yor Haid!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

On a limited production car like the VR4, don't run PGT. Not worth the trouble of trying to find the right door cards, silly styrofoam bumper inserts, or trim parts, or brake calipers or whatever.

With something like a WRX, where teenagers give an unending supply of wadded up cars to pick parts from, it's another story. Although I still think they should force P and PGT to fuel at the local 7-11.

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Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

Chiltons is a repair manual, not the same as a shop manual. Shop manual on CD or DVD is fine, however you also have to provide the means to display it.

P/PGT rules are rather simple...if it doesn't specifically say you can, you can't.

Stock fans, stock radiators. Things have to be just so. Rear window regulators must work. Proper racks, gears, brakes, turbos , 32mm restrictor, why make life tough on yourself ?

Open is the best option, I don't think a Galant will be a match for a WRX in PGT anyway. No prize money to pay for the headaches you'll incur from PGT either...go for the fun factor, go Open, go like hell.

Run Open !

Or do you want me to smack you in the head ? You know I can and will do it.

---

Cheers
M.Samli
Phoenix AZ
Gaylant VR4
EVO III GSR (Stolen)


Rallies are no place for traitors

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no reason on the green earth to with free
> will saddle yourself with endless restrictions for
> a leisure time activity if there is any way to
> avoid it and you have the way: Open.

Saaaaaaay. That's right! This is a leisure time activity. I'm doing this for fun. I should be getting the most out of my car and (trying to) run with the big dogs. Pray tell me which class allows me to run a turbocharged AWD car without a restrictor?

fiasco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On a limited production car like the VR4, don't
> run PGT. Not worth the trouble of trying to find
> the right door cards, silly styrofoam bumper
> inserts, or trim parts, or brake calipers or
> whatever.

Styrofoam bumper inserts? Goddamn! I threw that stupid thing out when I moved out of the apartment earlier this month. Bumper insert, radiator, fans, intercooler, piping... This thread just gets better and better!

heymagic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> P/PGT rules are rather simple...if it doesn't
> specifically say you can, you can't.

To quote some huge meteor, "Well fuck that."

Looks like I'm building an open class Misterbitchy. It feels like things just got a lot easier for me. I might be the slowest car in the bunch at the beginning, but that just means there's room to improve.

heymagic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Open is the best option, I don't think a Galant
> will be a match for a WRX in PGT anyway. No prize
> money to pay for the headaches you'll incur from
> PGT either...go for the fun factor, go Open, go
> like hell.

Very well put, but please elaborate on this prize money thing. I've never heard of that before.

sagsert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Run Open !
>
> Or do you want me to smack you in the head ? You
> know I can and will do it.

OPEN IT IS.

Time for me to get back into the rule books and see what other questions I have. Thanks for the advice, gents. Much appreciated.

---

Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

You chose... wisely.

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Monika Hawkinson
Seattle, WA

Open is a good choice!

It is so much easier when you are working on the car. My Laser was built for Open class only because of that, and our P4 class is much more permissive than PGT!

And who knows, I have a friend who finished on the podium (I think) at BDC a few years ago after the top runner failed to finish! He was in his 'open' class protege, without even a turbo!

I used to have a VR-4 and I think I still have some spare parts for it. I know I still have a lot from my DSMs so if you need something let me know, I might have it.

Have fun! that's the most important part of it.

---

Francois

"Looks like I'm building an open class Misterbitchy. It feels like things just got a lot easier for me. I might be the slowest car in the bunch at the beginning, but that just means there's room to improve."


Brian, you and I can fight for last place next year

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Right now in SouthEast Washington State in a Rally 'merakah event, a 1976 Volv 240 with a very rusty drive trying "Course Notes" for the first time is beating about 3/4 of all the turbo 4wd cars.
The majority are Subarus.
This means that at anytyhing below the top 5-7 that a well driven Gaylant is no handicap since the majority of the guys just are no way imaginable are they driven anywhere near the "Local" limit.

Make sure you have good brakes, scrounge the best gearset you can, get a turbo that moves CFM of air instead of just twirling and heating the air* and a good intercooler.
STRENGTHEN the rear subframe, trailing arms and trailing arm mounts so you can hit shit sideways without drama.


Try and break the cycle of just doing what streetboys claim is good.
I'll track down contact info for a friend I sold a Garrett T3 off a Cosworth and you can ask him how nice that was.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

"STRENGTHEN the rear subframe, trailing arms and trailing arm mounts so you can hit shit sideways without drama. "

JV....do you have photos or examples of how this is done on oem parts? Are people just welding custom cut, 1/4" thick, steel pieces over the areas that 'look' weak, or what's the science here?


IE, stuff like this for mounts, etc?
http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,13241

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2008 09:40PM by Jon Burke.

Brian, wanna get my supersecret RalliART rear mounts copied ?

I think I gave them to Keith some time and he had Ray get a couple of sets machined.

---

Cheers
M.Samli
Phoenix AZ
Gaylant VR4
EVO III GSR (Stolen)


Rallies are no place for traitors

Inspiring!

I *had* a set of Ray's indestructible rear mounts, but I blew the engine and sold them back to him to help fund the rebuild. Mounts are useless in a dead car, imo. I'd like to know more about this rear end strengthening as well. I found it was hard to break things loose with the 4WS, but now that the hard lines feeding the rear steering are borked, I'm going to cap the fittings up front and try that for a while.

In a perfect world, I'd pick up the rack from a non-power 1G and get some of those righteous heim joint deals for the rear, but perhaps Ray can help me to get by until budget becomes more than a pipe dream.

Brake suggestions? Stockers are about filling the stock 15" wheels. I'm wanting to stick with 15-inchers for the tire selection aspect of things, but I was planning on getting some quality slotted rotors and top shelf pads along the lines of Porterfield. Other suggestions? Braided lines, of course, but I digress.

I think gear sets (Evo III?) and turbos (Volvo C70 for the MHI td04h-19t) are a bit out of my price range for a while, so I'm going to be focused on driving. Power is nothing without control. In fact, the car will be legal and probably little else at Prescott. I'm looking at a cage, seats, suits, helmets and belts and not much more. A good set of tires, for sure, but no trip meter or fancy intercoms. Bare bones rallyistas.

I know it will be tough, but I'd rather have seat time than the best ride at the one event I'm trying to run this year. Gonna be tight this year. DSM Shootout in August, a wedding in September and Prescott in October.

And Tony will be back at Prescott in a Gaylant too? I can't fucking wait.

You got a deal, Up2Jon. So long as we're faster than Aaron and his fancy-pants Sol-Teks, right? Haha!

---

Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

oooo that was a cheap shot Brian! hah!

Open class is awesome, good luck to you and with the build! I know ill end up there eventually, because it just sounds like so much more fun. hydraulic turning brakes FTW

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-Aaron
http://www.dirtyimpreza.com

409industries Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oooo that was a cheap shot Brian! hah!
>
> Open class is awesome, good luck to you and with
> the build! I know ill end up there eventually,
> because it just sounds like so much more fun.
> hydraulic turning brakes FTW
>
> -Aaron
>


Tee-hee! You know I've got nothing but love for a fellow FNG. I'm just jealous you've been making progress while I've been sourcing cosmetic pieces.

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest