Fuel Lines, pumps

so we will be using a twin fuel pump setup in the next car after suffering a very upsetting DNF earlier this year....was it a mercedes twin pump and bracket setup that we should be using? I think it was a CIS-based car with bosch pumps....

Also, other than the obvious safety issues, is there any other reason why we should run a fuel cell? Staying on the more cost effective side of things, it seems like it is more trouble than it is worth....especially when they are one of the few things that aren't rule-required....yet.

Also, we'll probably run the fuel lines and pumps in the car, is the general consensus to run all braided, toss in some stainless steel line and bulk heads or grommets?

what's your preference?

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-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
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My advice is to run as little braided line as is needed for flex reasons. Use hard line through the cockpit run down the center tunnel (less prone to crash damage than along the sill.) Cars plumbed with all braided aeroquip type hose tend to smell like fuel inside all the time because the rubber hose "breathes". It's not that hard to bend metal tubing. Plus it's cheaper. Just get a good tubing bender.

Sticking with stock tank and location is a good option for budget-minded rallying. The incidents of fire and fuel leaks is pretty low, thankfully. Just keep an eye on the mounts/bolts/straps and make sure the filler line is shielded. (An unshielded filler in the wheel well has been the cause of fires in some recent Subarus.)

You wrote: "stainless steel line"; use regular steel line; stainless hard line is not the norm. (The woven braid on braided lines IS stainless...) BTW, when we use stainless braided line, we use the teflon lined stuff, not rubber. Rubber rots under the braid and you cannot inspect it for cracking. Like Dave says, the rubber has pin-hole voids that sometimes cause 'oozing' of gas and gas vapors in the car for no apparent reason.

If in the car, put the fuel pumps in a well sealed box with an easily removed cover for servicing. Or leave them opn but put in a bulkhead between you and the trunk. Run the fuel and electric lines in/out of the box through grommets, or otherwise seal them.

Regards,
Mark B.

Another vote for steel lines and stock fuel tank, especially in a hatchback type car. Put the fuel pumps in a box in the back . Put on a gasketed lid with a few wing nuts . Make sure to put a drain hole or two in the bottom so spilled fuel or other leak issues will drain outside the car.

awesome....just what I was looking for. Thanks guys...I think John Lane is running that factory twin fuel pump setup I'm after, I'll ask him and post it up, it is pretty trick.

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-Tom
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Tom B Wrote:
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> so we will be using a twin fuel pump setup in the
> next car after suffering a very upsetting DNF
> earlier this year....was it a mercedes twin pump
> and bracket setup that we should be using? I
> think it was a CIS-based car with bosch pumps....

You guys are running fuel injection right?

> Also, other than the obvious safety issues, is
> there any other reason why we should run a fuel
> cell? Staying on the more cost effective side of
> things, it seems like it is more trouble than it
> is worth....especially when they are one of the
> few things that aren't rule-required....yet.

It was a big expensive pain in the ass to put it in my CRX road race car. Like $500-600 for a real cell with all the plumbing. I'm sure it is more heavy than stock, and I'm just not sure what the real benefit is. I don't see cars getting sheared in half and catching fire from the severed fuel tanks.


> Also, we'll probably run the fuel lines and pumps
> in the car, is the general consensus to run all
> braided, toss in some stainless steel line and
> bulk heads or grommets?

I am a proponent of hardlines everywhere except to the motor where it needs some flex. Easier, cheaper, lighter.

Megasquirt EFI on the last evolution....we'll stay with that for a while, it worked pretty well

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-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
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Hey Tom,
What was the failure? the transfer pump or the main?
which one are you doubling up? I had issues with the intank. The intank wasnt pumping enough, in return was making the main pump overwork/whine. This is a typical vw issue. Now i have a spare for both eventhough i let someone borrow the spare intank pump.

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rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

I have a cell in the back in a fancy sheet metal box, but it was way expensive.

On the golf however there's one more thing to consider which is that it would be nice to triangulate the rear beam, which you can't do with a stock tank in the way. So, fuel cell to move the tank out of the way to gain strength in the rear beam. I know a few teams have banged stuff enough to need that reinforcement and haven't had it... Ask Derek Bottles about driving down smith creek with a ton of rear toe out heh. Not my idea of a smooth or safe ride

I do also like the softer braided lines in the car, they are super easy to work with... My car had the nasty fuel smell until I replaced the lines with teflon ones instead of rubber. So that point was well made.

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http://www.ckrally.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2008 02:11AM by cblakely.

in the rabbit, the main pump is gravity fed, so the car just died when trying to get to a stage start, I checked up front on my FPR and saw no fuel pressure...

I think the key is to have redundancy, the pump setup that lane is running is pretty awesome, factory, not alot of BS involved and it'd be a cake walk to swap in.

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-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
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I'll post my twin pump setup pics in a few.

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Cheers
M.Samli
Phoenix AZ
Gaylant VR4
EVO III GSR (Stolen)


Rallies are no place for traitors

It's been a few I'd like to see em too!

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http://www.ckrally.com

Heres a vermont car's twin pump setup. It can be duplicated by using far cheaper fittings. Like the staubli 6AN quick disconnect dry break fitting for the fuel test port is probably $200.

that looks like about $1500 worth of blue and red alone....

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-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
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Carl S Wrote:
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> Heres a vermont car's twin pump setup. It can be
> duplicated by using far cheaper fittings. Like
> the staubli 6AN quick disconnect dry break fitting
> for the fuel test port is probably $200.
>


what pumps are those? Is that the fuel filter on the left there? Is there an in tank pump as well?

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Gone fishing