Proper rebuilt short block break in procedure

ok, I know this must have been asked or discussed before but the search engine returned no hits for me so I had to create a new thread on the subject.

I have a VW 2.0 9A short block rebuilt and I'm looking for the facts on the proper break in procedure.

This is what I've read:

1) From a sheet the builder gave me: start the motor and let it idle btw 2000 and 2500 rpm for 20 minutes. That's all it says...
2) From a dude at the shop: don't beat on the motor but make sure you DONT run it at one RPM. Drive the car around and make sure to hit various loading and rpm conditions..This somewhat contradicts 1) in my mind. Don't run the engine hard until 500 miles are on it.
3) This dude who says that the best way to break a motor in is to beat the shit out of it. http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

What is consistent is that most say that the number one concern in breaking in a motor is getting the piston rings to seat.

So how do I break in a block? Any recommended lubricants? I've read to stay away from synthetics at the first start since they lubricate to well..whatever that means...

please help obi-wan, you're my only hope.

I can tell you how to break-in a suby engine...I would think its pretty much the same except you're not worrying about boost.

Keep out of boost...7-8psi max.

don't rev above 4000rpms, but do a bit of engine breaking in every gear.

don't use synthetic...regular dino oil, or some companies make a 'break-in' oil (ie Motul).

do this for 1000 miles, then change the oil and tune/drive normal.

I've heard don't change oil until 1k Miles, and I've heard change oil at 150 miles, 500 miles, and 1000 miles.


Now, I've also heard of/read about the 'drive it hard' from the start method as well, but don't have any experience with that.

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2008 09:46PM by Jon Burke.

I've always fired it up and kept the revs up and down between 2000-3000 revs to break the cam in for about 3 mins.

Then go out into the parking lot and the street and rip the snot of it.

---

Michael LeCompte

Eddie, the what is one thing, the WHY is more important.

You say rebuilt.
What does that mean in your case.
The real answer depends on that.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

It was a basic rebuild with the pistons being reused. Here's what my invoice states as for as the details go:

hot tank
Same pistons, new rings
Rod bearing set
Main Bearing set
head set
Thrust washer
Piston pin bushings
Hone Block
Int/brgs (int shaft bearings?)
Polish
Hang pistons
resize-rods (whatever that means)
balance engine

The motor came out of the salvage yard and had about 100k miles on it.





Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2008 12:36AM by Eddie Fiorelli.

Eddie Fiorelli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was a basic rebuild with the pistons being
> reused. Here's what my invoice states as for as
> the details go:
>
> hot tank
> Same pistons, new rings
> Rod bearing set
> Main Bearing set
> head set
> Thrust washer
> Piston pin bushings
> Hone Block
> Int/brgs (int shaft bearings?)
> Polish
> Hang pistons
> resize-rods (whatever that means)
> balance engine
>
> The motor came out of the salvage yard and had
> about 100k miles on it.
>
So crank not ground
No new cam just honed cylinders.

Warm it straight up to temp.
Dump oil and water--start with water,
Change oil and filter, add coolant warm it up, put some moderate load on it, call it good

Brak in is mainly about work hardening (beating down the microscopic) "tags' that get pulled up in the grinding process.
No new grinds, no big deal.
>
>
>
>
> Edited 3 times. Last edit at Nov 9, 2008 by Eddie
> Fiorelli.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

ack missed a detail..yeah, the crank was ground for knife edging and for balancing. Yup the cylinders were just honed. And yes, I'll be using a nice head I already have which has been run before so nothing new in the head.

Does the grounds on the crank for the knife edging and balancing count as far as leading to those "tags" you refer to?

thanks!
-e

My method is:
Drive car around like normal for 25 miles, load on to trailer, get to rally, drive around for 25 more miles, change oil, start rally.

Eddie Fiorelli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ack missed a detail..yeah, the crank was ground
> for knife edging and for balancing. Yup the
> cylinders were just honed. And yes, I'll be using
> a nice head I already have which has been run
> before so nothing new in the head.
>
> Does the grounds on the crank for the knife edging
> and balancing count as far as leading to those
> "tags" you refer to?

Huh?
The JOURNAL SURFACE where the bearing runs on is the surface we're talking about
Look at this:


See that big pink grinding stone?
When that grinds on the journal surface, it grinds the surface as opposed to a lathe which actually cuts into the surface. In the course of grinding microscopic pieces of iron or steel are pulled away up off the surface of the journal leading to something that looks----greatly exaggerated---like a buzz saw:


After the crank journal is ground, it is polished as the first step in flattening the peaks of the "tags", the second thing is the initial break in.

Any clearer?


By the way Eddie, for the price of a accurate digital scale at Office Depot or Staples, you can weigh each rod and each piston and mix and match so they are withing a gram of total weight. Follow? Say one piston is 342g and the nest is 344g and one rod is 490 grams and the other is 492....shove the 344g piston on the 490g rod, the 342g piston on the 492g rod, make them all weigh the same.
That's good enough in an inline 4 cylinder.
The are inherently imbalanced and all you can do is make the total weight pretty good.
No need to spend (how much for "knife edging and balancing???) for something not doing anything really.

I really do want to know how much.
>
> thanks!
> -e

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Thanks John. Very clear now. The journal surfaces were not touched.

The balanceing and knife edging combined cost me $300. The balancing was 130 and knife edging was 170. Let the flogging begin.

Actually I was on the fence regarding the knife edging as it didnt seem all that important. I was expecting a call after the hot tank and prior to the work being done to establish precisely what they were going to do. At which time I was going to nix the knife edging. The next call I got was to tell me to pick up my finished motor and the knife edging had been done.


-e

Eddie Fiorelli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks John. Very clear now. The journal surfaces
> were not touched.
>
> The balanceing and knife edging combined cost me
> $300. The balancing was 130 and knife edging was
> 170. Let the flogging begin.
>
> Actually I was on the fence regarding the knife
> edging as it didnt seem all that important. I was
> expecting a call after the hot tank and prior to
> the work being done to establish precisely what
> they were going to do. At which time I was going
> to nix the knife edging. The next call I got was
> to tell me to pick up my finished motor and the
> knife edging had been done.

No flogging because no intention from your part to be stupid.
They just suckered you.

But 300 is a good ways towards high comp forged piston which are stronger and more tolerant of ping-ping-ping--ricochet rabbit! and give you higher STATIC comp which lets you go to a longer duration can with later intake closing and still have some dynamic compression left and get a big increase in TORQUE.

NEXT TIME, talk to somebody who has built good strong cheap rally motors.
You know where.
Spend money on shit that actually accomplishes a performance and reliability gain you'll feel, OK?
>
>
> -e
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> But 300 is a good ways towards high comp forged
> piston which are stronger and more tolerant of
> ping-ping-ping--ricochet rabbit! and give you
> higher STATIC comp which lets you go to a longer
> duration can with later intake closing and still
> have some dynamic compression left and get a big
> increase in TORQUE.
>
> NEXT TIME, talk to somebody who has built good
> strong cheap rally motors.
> You know where.
> Spend money on shit that actually accomplishes a
> performance and reliability gain you'll feel, OK?
> >
> >

I think that's pretty much what I did.....wow, my tuner is pretty smart We didn't touch the STI crank or rods, but put in forged pistons and upgraded the main and rod bearings.

ported headwork and JUN256 cams......the pistons (supertech) weren't that bad, but man, headwork/cams are expensive. Its fun as hell though!

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

John, If you had to go with one over the other and not both would you...

A) Run a windage tray/crank scraper

or

B ) knife edge the crank

?

---

Michael LeCompte



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2008 07:25PM by pikespeakgtx.

Eddie Fiorelli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ok, I know this must have been asked or discussed
> before but the search engine returned no hits for
> me so I had to create a new thread on the
> subject.
>
> I have a VW 2.0 9A short block rebuilt and I'm
> looking for the facts on the proper break in
> procedure.
>
> This is what I've read:
>
> 1) From a sheet the builder gave me: start the
> motor and let it idle btw 2000 and 2500 rpm for 20
> minutes. That's all it says...
> 2) From a dude at the shop: don't beat on the
> motor but make sure you DONT run it at one RPM.
> Drive the car around and make sure to hit various
> loading and rpm conditions..This somewhat
> contradicts 1) in my mind. Don't run the engine
> hard until 500 miles are on it.
> 3) This dude who says that the best way to break a
> motor in is to beat the shit out of it.
>
> What is consistent is that most say that the
> number one concern in breaking in a motor is
> getting the piston rings to seat.
>
> So how do I break in a block? Any recommended
> lubricants? I've read to stay away from synthetics
> at the first start since they lubricate to
> well..whatever that means...
>
> please help obi-wan, you're my only hope.
>
>
I go with 1) and 2) above, with the fast idle at less than 2000 rpm. During 2), we change oil and filter at 50 or 100 miles (if I remember!). Then go out and do 2) some more with increasing loads. We get 'on it' hard a few times at about 75 to 100 mi, and then start working it harder over 100 miles. We used to not lean on the motor 'til 500 miles, but we get excellent wear results and no comprsssion problems by waiting only 100 miles.

We'll keep a good quality, natural petroleum oil in the engine through the first rally, and then you can switch to synthetics of your choice. Never break in with synthetic or a blend, it can prevent ring seating, and the cylinder walls can glaze and never seat the rings. (Which can also happen if you don't put some loads in it during break-in.)

Oh yeah, make SURE you re-torque the head bolts after a few hours of operation or a few hundred miles.

Good luck; sounds like you are on the right track, Eddie.
Mark B.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2008 07:36PM by starion887.

Thanks.

Quick follow up:

What is a good quality, natural petroleum oil? I could search this out but while I have your attention.... I'm likely overthinking this aren't I? Castrol GTX good? Valvoline? Too many choices!!1!!

Ok, so lastly judging from what I've gotten back from people here and elsewhere, the guy in the "kick the crap out of it" link doesn't seem to be at the norm in regards to what you guys are thinking. This is what caught my attention:

"There's a very small window of opportunity to get the rings to seal really well ... the first 20 miles !!

If the rings aren't forced against the walls soon enough, they'll use up the roughness before they fully seat. Once that happens there is no solution but to re hone the cylinders, install new rings and start over again."

Perhaps its the use of two exclamation points, count them , two!! that is bringing me back to him.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2008 09:14PM by Eddie Fiorelli.