subaru rear sub frame

Daniel Buehler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> john vanlandingham Wrote:
>
> > But tell me, being the tarmac ignorante that
> I am,
> > what makes that a "tarmac" thing?
>
> > John Vanlandingham
> > Sleezattle, WA, USA
> >
> > Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
> >
> > www.jvab.f4.ca
>
>
> Hey John, as I understand it, it's a "tarmac"
> thingy cuz of some suspension geometry (MATH)
> stuff... like those extra set of holes higher up,
> to mount the trailing arms. Something about
> correcting the roll centre when the car is
> lowered.

That's more what I was wondering, and since I'm sorta the guy pushing William on this idea so he could have some nice gravy work, get some cash flow flowing, and so be able to do less "attractive stuff" like for the rest of us Po' Drive types, I suggested we start with original geometry on both the Sub-a-rat set up and the far simpler Xratty rear subframe.

Once the things are on some cars THEN see if we can work with somebody locally that might be doing a nice high powered tarmac car to establish more tarmac optimal pick up points, link length etc.

Now where could we find a high powered tarmac oriented Sub-a-rat where? WHERE?!!! WHEEEERE!!!??? If only we could find a car like that nearby!!
>
> First rally car, a '94 Subarat is in progress...

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Jon Burke Wrote:
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> and I'm sure its made of
> asymmetricalunobtaniumcromolywontbendium.
>
> we still don't have any formal pricing on Williams
> stuff, right?

No he's even more "business casul everyday" than I am.

(That really is a problem when you got 2 guys like him and I who are so focused on the build the build the build!!!)(At least he took the time to make an acceptable web site.)(Then again he is of that generation)
>
> Jon Burke - KI6LSW
> Blog:
> 'Holy Shit!' @ 4:10

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I think a great idea would be to produce a chromolly unit exactly like the MSI unit, dual pickups, nice solid rear diff mount, and the ability to use the OEM type lateral links, because all the aftermarket ones work with the OEM sub frame. You wouldn’t have to use cam bolts just holes that were the correct size to rigidly mount them basically the same unit but at a better price point.

Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:
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> NoCoast Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > MSI rear sub frame 2004-2007 STI $2999.00
> >
> >
>
> You're joking, right? I don't even charge that
> much for most rollcages.
>

Remember MSI is the same people that are the North American representation for DMS. I guess they must have learned their pricing model from the Aussies.

token-negro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think a great idea would be to produce a
> chromolly unit exactly like the MSI unit, dual
> pickups, nice solid rear diff mount, and the
> ability to use the OEM type lateral links, because
> all the aftermarket ones work with the OEM sub
> frame. You wouldn’t have to use cam bolts just
> holes that were the correct size to rigidly mount
> them basically the same unit but at a better price
> point.

You know, I spent half my life supported by chrome-moly structures, depended on them not to break and spit me of at 70mph (I found enough ways to do headplants on my own) but I'm having just a little bit of a hard time quite seeing the necessity of making these subframe things in Chrome-moly.

Let's think about it, like clean sheet of paper.
We're replacing a really cheezoid (not even really cheezy) POS stamping and barely more than curtain rods seriously with burly tubular designs for the subframe and with really hefty links.

What's the original stamping? Normal stamping steel, very likely.
What's it's wall thickness ? 1.5mm"? 2mm?
And while smart guys can make stampings be all ribbed for her pleasure in whatever way they want, they're thin plate vs a really different idea of support.

What I'm poking at is the well known tendency of guys like us to ALWAYS WAY OVERKILL EXCESSIVELY too much.

A tube framework is enormously stronger by both design and sheer thickness of material, need it really be chrome-moly?

Or is that needed just so we can match what some other part claims to be?


Let's chew this over. (überzaug ?)

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

John...you are too old.


Chromoly is "bling" and sells parts.


Ever been to a Subaru Forum..guys buy TITANIUM strut bars...and they put them on a car where the front struts are basically build into the damn firewall. An "ebay" strut bar for $5,99 plus shipping would do the same thing...

Guys buy these stupid "subframe" braces for the front end of a WRX, made all from Chromoly and stuff for more than what William would want for one of these X-members!!!

Some guy whos actually smart goes and builds the SAME sub-frame from DOM tubing, it costs him $30 in tube, and an evening of labour. Posts up pictures and gets slammed because it is not Chromo.... "weeerrrr it weighs .77 lbs more than my XYZ JDM SUPER HAPPY FUN Sub-frame brace, mine is better...you should have bought that"


People are programed to believe that they need the latest and greatest thing. They think that because it's on some Time Attack car, or it's JDM that it's awesome......

well that and "road racers" and wanna be road racers (time attack guys)...are odd....

however...still a leg up on the rule book thumpers (Auto-x) guys.




my opinion...make it out of freaking DOM tube....call it Chromo, because no one will never know the difference, and charge the added 7 zillion bucks.

---

Chris

Do It Sidewayz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> my opinion...make it out of freaking DOM
> tube....call it Chromo, because no one will never
> know the difference, and charge the added 7
> zillion bucks.
>
>
>
>
> Chris


Thats just low. you could STOCK the DOM models, and have an option made to order chromo for more money. Thats what I would do. Have maybe 1-2 dom models laying around and materials to make maybe 2-3 more, and then no chromo till I have to.

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Andrew_Frick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > NoCoast Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > MSI rear sub frame 2004-2007 STI
> $2999.00
> > >
> > >
> >
> > You're joking, right? I don't even charge
> that
> > much for most rollcages.
> >
>
> Remember MSI is the same people that are the North
> American representation for DMS. I guess they
> must have learned their pricing model from the
> Aussies.

That explains everything....

In other words they're just crooks.

Do It Sidewayz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> John...you are too old.
>
>
> Chromoly is "bling" and sells parts.
>
>
> Ever been to a Subaru Forum..guys buy TITANIUM
> strut bars...and they put them on a car where the
> front struts are basically build into the damn
> firewall. An "ebay" strut bar for $5,99 plus
> shipping would do the same thing...
>
> Guys buy these stupid "subframe" braces for the
> front end of a WRX, made all from Chromoly and
> stuff for more than what William would want for
> one of these X-members!!!
>
> Some guy whos actually smart goes and builds the
> SAME sub-frame from DOM tubing, it costs him $30
> in tube, and an evening of labour. Posts up
> pictures and gets slammed because it is not
> Chromo.... "weeerrrr it weighs .77 lbs more than
> my XYZ JDM SUPER HAPPY FUN Sub-frame brace, mine
> is better...you should have bought that"
>
>
> People are programed to believe that they need the
> latest and greatest thing. They think that
> because it's on some Time Attack car, or it's JDM
> that it's awesome......
>
> well that and "road racers" and wanna be road
> racers (time attack guys)...are odd....
>
> however...still a leg up on the rule book thumpers
> (Auto-x) guys.
>
>
>
>
> my opinion...make it out of freaking DOM
> tube....call it Chromo, because no one will never
> know the difference, and charge the added 7
> zillion bucks.
>
>
>
>
> Chris


Just a little bitter?

Using the front sub frames as a perfect example, when building something like this, wouldn’t you want to use the lighter material that was just as stiff if not stiffer? I mean that would be a natural direction. And isn’t racing of all sorts used to sell parts? Back to the front sub frames, a good friend of mine makes them, we have it figured out to be about 40$ less in material if you use DOM. Most guys won’t trip over 40$

Is crome-moly tube ever a necessity, in any application? I thought the whole point of it was increased strength of the material so you could run a thinner wall thickness and thus reduce the weight on whatever it was you were making?

Well, really it ought to be chrome moly just to make it lighter. (In other words, use thinner wall ChroMo.) That DOM model is going to be freakin' heavy.

Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, really it ought to be chrome moly just to
> make it lighter. (In other words, use thinner wall
> ChroMo.) That DOM model is going to be freakin'
> heavy.

I think it was the Gravel Crew guys or someone in/near/around their shop did this for that Baja-prepped subaru (I posted some pics in another thread a while back)...they fabbed up the front end in DOM. ended up being 2lbs lighter than stock.

so, maybe heavy compared to chromoly, but not THAT heavy.


however, if the price difference is really $40, sure, make that fucker from the lighter stuff, I'll take one.

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Huh when did I miss all this? well I have a almost done frame its sweet looking ill
take a few snaps soon I used way less material in this new one and I have all the
4130 a man could want for this project. the 4130 one should be about 15 lbs maybe
lighter I have 4130 sheet too .095 and the tube wall is .065 and the steel is .125
sheet and 095 tube its going to be a big difference O ya I have tarmac mounts too.
let me get some pics.

---

TSSFAB.US No HYPE just parts!!!! And check us out on Facebook!!!

The material is not too much more, it hurts when you buy a lot but in the end, its
harder to work with needs to be closer on the tolerances and if its going to be tig
welded cost gos threw the roof I am going to mig weld it all the wire in a mig is
still 10,000 psi stronger that 4130. So little more than 40 bucks

---

TSSFAB.US No HYPE just parts!!!! And check us out on Facebook!!!

SteelSolutions Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The material is not too much more, it hurts when
> you buy a lot but in the end, its
> harder to work with needs to be closer on the
> tolerances and if its going to be tig
> welded cost gos threw the roof I am going to mig
> weld it all the wire in a mig is
> still 10,000 psi stronger that 4130. So little
> more than 40 bucks
>
>
>
> http://www.tssfab.us/ eBay Store
>


40$ was on a differnt part. And really was just the material, he only tig welds so theres no time savings or labor differencs.