Specs on Focus rotors

Dazed_Driver Wrote:
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> Not applicable does not equal not interesting.
>
> Feisty Peacock?
>
> My noodle I doodled was ate by a poodle


What quit talking crazy

Tim Taylor Wrote:
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> Cosworth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> I know some excellent forged
> > monoblock aluminum MMC 4 pot calipers for
> $495
> > retail.
>
> Well give it up...who's making MMC calipers for
> that price? Any chance you know what the alloy
> is. I still have not so fond memories of a
> Boralyn fiasco in the early '90's.
>
> Just for reference the Wilwood Radial Dyna Pro
> that Eric is referencing is 100% machined. They
> may start with a forging but it might as well be
> billet because they hit every surface with a
> cutter. In my experience they are picking up a
> very minor strength increase from forging.
> Wholesale price of ~$195 each:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


GODDAMMIT TIM! now I want a set....I was perfectly happy looking at cool pics of totally unattainable brake set-ups (btw, the floating rotors are very cool), and you RUINED it.

<slaps face>......cage first.....first finish cage....nothing else matters.....stop window shopping.....

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

john vanlandingham Wrote:
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> > Come on this is all over da place now and some
> may be interesting for those not knowing anything
> but I think it has to be said; Paul is now working
> in Charlotte, that almost certainly means he's
> working in NASCAR.
>
> that means the stuff he's seeing and talking about
> related to NASCAR things which weigh a minimum of
> 3400 LBS (or 700 to 900 lbs heavier than what
> we're are talking about) and which reach who knows
> what for speeds but certainly well over double or
> even triple the average SS speed.
>
> BOTH those factors, weight and speed, are quite
> geometric increases as far as I know in terms of
> energy requirements to bring it up to speed or
> slow it down at a given rate, much less do that
> repeatedly like a short track car---whatever
> passes for short track anymore.
>
> So whatever Paul says about the needs from his
> current perspective make sense.
>
> It's just so far extremely beyond what anybody
> doing gravel Norte Americano events need that it
> makes it inapplicable.
>
>
> Hey Vittorio, the whole fawkin point is "You wanna
> borrow a bell and disc to see it you can mock up
> sumpin?"
>
>
>
>
>
> John Vanlandingham
> Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
> www.jvab.f4.ca

LOL John... it takes you to put a spin to things And ughh, no I'm not working on the NASCAR side. NASCAR is a world in itself. I never in my life saw the things they do there! Different pads from left to right and crazy crap like that. But the short track setups are some of the meanest brake setups in the world. I do the left and right turns side of things. SCCA, open wheel, Grand Am, ALMS, and IRL mostly. Some rally stuff, but the market here is really small compared to what our UK office does.

Eric I will take a pic of a forged core when I get back to the office on Monday.

And Tim, what's wrong with the boralyn? No I dont know what the exact alloy is but I know its metal matrix.

Cosworth Wrote:
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> And Tim, what's wrong with the boralyn? No I dont
> know what the exact alloy is but I know its metal
> matrix.

My experience was in the '90 and some things have changed. Boralyn was mostly a hype machine. They busted onto the scene and got huge funding from GE Capital etc. etc. and their marketing people got their stuff into everything whether it needed it or not. From friggin' golf club heads to bicycle frames/parts it was cool to have a Boralyn product. They even got GM to make a bunch of EV-1 parts out of it.

Some of the alloy's they marketed didn't even have a significantly higher modulus of elasticity than normal aluminum. As a bonus it was miserable to manufacture with because PCD cutting tools and amorphous diamond coatings weren't widely available yet. It was like machining aluminum with gravel in it. You could practically see a carbide cutter wearing.

MMC done properly is some seriously cool shit and a brake caliper is a perfect application for it. You can get increased stiffness, lighter weight, and better abrasion resistance. And it usually just about doubles the cost of the parts in a strait substitution scenario. Back to the whole cost vs. benefit thing…

So which caliper is it?

-Tim

Here's the metal matrix forged monoblock caliper that I mentioned mocked on some team dynamics wheels with 310mmx32x40mm disks

This was just put together to see if this package would work for rally. That caliper in the picture is now in the hands of 4 star motorsports.

Nice looking setup! Those crossover tubes look like they're just ready to be destroyed by gravel and rocks though. Not that the ones on my front are probably any better and have survived just fine I suppose.

---

Grant Hughes

Cosworth Wrote:> And ughh, no I'm not working on the NASCAR side.
> NASCAR is a world in itself. I never in my life
> saw the things they do there! Different pads from
> left to right and crazy crap like that.

That's crazy?

I guess they stopped selling them (for good reason I bet!) but I remember seeing ads for regular ol' cast iron Moraine single-piston calipers where literally half of the weight was machined away.

You can still buy lightweight calipers, but for some reason they are using dedicated steel castings instead of milling the snot out of 30 year old iron ones...

It's been a long while since I paid much attention to circle track stuff. I'm finding aluminum calipers now. That strikes me as an awful idea, most aluminum single-piston calipers I experience on the OEM side actually creak when you apply the brakes and you can *feel* the caliper flexing. I mean, yeah they work well enough for OEM level liability, but for how long?

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2009 08:30PM by Pete.

NoCoast Wrote:
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> Nice looking setup! Those crossover tubes look
> like they're just ready to be destroyed by gravel
> and rocks though. Not that the ones on my front
> are probably any better and have survived just
> fine I suppose.
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO

The brembo's homologated for the group n Evo's also have cross over pipes like that and I have yet to hear of one of our teams having brake failures from that. Plus those brembos dont even have pipe a pipe protector at the caliper throat like this one. And from what the guys in our UK office say is that if you run scrapers then chances of rocks getting in there are even less. And one of them worked for Prodrive for over 10 years 7 in the rally side.

But its like everything, just because it doesnt happened yet it doesnt mean its not prone to it. But its very easy to "fold" a piece of aluminum or kevlar over that section if you chose to.


Pete, ummm, there's 5 brake calipers in NASCAR, AP, PFC, Alcon, Brembo and Raybestos but steel caliper castings? Must've been a while ago. Well for as retarded errr I mean rule restricted as they are with technology, they still use the some of best brakes in the business. A complete carset of brakes for a cup car costs between 18-20k, and its the same technology as the non carbon IRL setups.

I can't make out the part # from the pictures...is that a ZR34 Speedway caliper? The ZR41's look similar but I'm not sure how to tell the difference from that picture.

Is that the $500 MMC caliper you were referring to? And really I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, I'm legitimately curious. The only list price I found was $1000 each for the ZR34. If I picked the wrong one please point me in the proper direction.

-Tim

Tim Taylor Wrote:
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> I can't make out the part # from the pictures...is
> that a ZR34 Speedway caliper? The ZR41's look
> similar but I'm not sure how to tell the
> difference from that picture.
>
> Is that the $500 MMC caliper you were referring
> to? And really I'm not trying to be a jerk about
> this, I'm legitimately curious. The only list
> price I found was $1000 each for the ZR34. If I
> picked the wrong one please point me in the proper
> direction.
>
> -Tim
> Yep thats the one. ZR34 and its $495. If you find it listed at $1000, then those people are trying to take advantage of the situation because a caliper like that is worth even more.