Dirty, Dirty, Diesels

Ok, preface is I've talked to JVL several times (about a year ago) and I'm not even going to start building for at least another year when I finish my masters in Industrial Design.

Diesel in rallying?

The first "no" I see is that you're stuck with either AWD or Group 5 because no diesel makes decent power without a turbo.

The second "no" is of course the lack of selection here in the US. The VW 1.9 TDI is the only suitable engine of recent make, and it's got some nasty long-stroke engine geometry to deal with. BTW, the whole "diesels cant rev" thing, folks over at the IDI VW forums have modified their injection pumps and get full power all the way to 6k on old 1.6l IDI turbodiesels.

The selection might get a lot better with the 2007 diesels that will be coming thanks to the cleaner fuel we will then hopefully have if dubyah doesnt fuck that up again.

Audi is proving diesel has competitive promise with the R10.

With the current selection it seems a MKII golf with either a tuned 1.6l IDI or a 1.9l TDI would be the best combination, competitive I don't know.

Of course I've got my own personal politics and biodiesel hippyness to influence my decision.

Rally and Diesel, Discuss.

Nothing wrong with starting in Group 5.

http://www.rallyvw.com/

Actually, when you multipy out the multiplers for diesel and turbo, you wind up under the limit for P class with the TDI.

Jon Hamilton ran his VW in P until this year.

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Lurch
Eric Burmeister
The west coast...of Michigan

I was under the impression multipliers didn't make up for it being turbo, no matter how the math worked out. I take it that this is NOT true for group 2 however?

Rallying a MKIV, hmmn. My DD is a TDI MKIV and it's a relative boat compared to a MKII (my first car). I think the TDI in a MKII in Group 5 could possibly be competitive. Is P a decent place to start though? I've only seen warnings against it.

If you grew from P to 5, you'd be in 5 with a heavy bodyshell that wouldn't be as competitive as a MKII.

gemorris Wrote:
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> Diesel in rallying?
>
> Rally and Diesel, Discuss.


Rallytruck?

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Kirk Coughlin
Woodbury, MN and River Falls, WI

Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.

If memory serves their are special multipliers for diesel engines including turbo diesels that allow them to fit into P and G2. Read through the RA and NASA rulebooks if you get a chance and see what the current multipliers are.

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Matt Smith

Racing in glorious black and red

My daily life is a Saab story (sold!)

Matt,

I'll read through again, but from my last read, group 2 didn't allow any turbocharging period. This was above and beyond whatever the end displacement multiplied number was. The chart in the rulebook says N/A next to turbocharging and Group 2.

If this can be refuted anywhere else I'd love to hear it.

Right now I'm leaning twoards the idea of a MB 190 with a 2.5 or 3.0 5 or 6 cylinder in it. Some Finns have been getting 450+ HP out of those things, and the 190 is an overbuilt car that was intended to be rallied. (back when MB actually stood for some sort of quality).

Do you think that you can get the M-B suspenders to actually give you some of the needed articulation? Them M-B things get pretty spendy as soon as you whack it inot something. ON the bright side you can easily fit the bigger brakes and such that were fitted to other models and the 201 chassis cars can now be had fo cheap!!

Diesel huh? You make me seem sane be comparison.

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JohnLane

Volvo 260turbo AKA The Fire Breathing Monster
Overkill is consistently more fun

in the off topic forum i asked a similar question about a MK2 4dr that's available...... no replies for me. i am not popular.


about the 190's, well, i've seen them, the Gr.F's in NRF last year...... fucking sweet man. they seem to be bullet proof and all that good stuff. finns were telling me that the guy who won national grF in 04 was in a 190..... or was it a beemer...... or a toyota starlet..... i cant remember with all the Karjala.... anyway, did you guys know that Auriol used to rally one semi successfully in the 80's?

gemorris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Matt,
>
> I'll read through again, but from my last read,
> group 2 didn't allow any turbocharging period.
> This was above and beyond whatever the end
> displacement multiplied number was. The chart in
> the rulebook says N/A next to turbocharging and
> Group 2.
>
> If this can be refuted anywhere else I'd love to
> hear it.
>
> Right now I'm leaning twoards the idea of a MB 190
> with a 2.5 or 3.0 5 or 6 cylinder in it. Some
> Finns have been getting 450+ HP out of those
> things, and the 190 is an overbuilt car that was
> intended to be rallied. (back when MB actually
> stood for some sort of quality).

What the fuck do you alway dream about wied shit when therer are GOOD Mercedes 2.3 16s in the junk yards rotting?
Are you purposely trying to find some built in excuse for making no results?
Then why wierd shit always?

Why try and be creative and different just for the supposed novelty???


To be really different, try building and rallying a well built car.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Well, for starters the 2.3-16 has a dogleg gearbox, making it ineligible for group F.

Secondly, I want to run bio in any car I drive.

But your sentiment is duly noted.

Is 1st gear dog leg or reverse? The Group F H pattern requirement refers to forward gears. In some dogboxes 1st gear will be dog leg to make shifts between 2nd and 3rd quicker, since that's where you'll spend alot of time in a tight twisty rally road.

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Grant Hughes

gemorris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, for starters the 2.3-16 has a dogleg
> gearbox, making it ineligible for group F.
>
> Secondly, I want to run bio in any car I drive.
>
> But your sentiment is duly noted.

What the fuck are you talking about???
The shift pattern has nothing to do with nothing--its entirely legal..

And the big deal is having not the 2nd to third easy----life ain't tooo fuckin exciting when you're only in 2nd and 3rd----the big deal is having a straight shot back into TOP when scenery is whipping by at 90+---ya don't need fumbles going towards 5th.

Still say be creative in "real life" just keep it simple in the hobby and maybe it'll actually get done in the next 3-4 years.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

gemorris Wrote:
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> Secondly, I want to run bio in any car I drive.

Hippy. But honestly, I have a great friend and awesome mechanic/cage builder that moved to Raleigh last year if you need someone respectable to build you cage. PM me if so. Last I talked to him he was still working at a body shop and building Porsche 911 race cars or something of the sort.

---

Grant Hughes

gemorris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, for starters the 2.3-16 has a dogleg
> gearbox, making it ineligible for group F.
>
> Secondly, I want to run bio in any car I drive.
>
> But your sentiment is duly noted.


hum, how come i've seen quite a few 190's GrF?