Dry Ice (Sorry, John.)

Only, yours is SooperBitchin'^TM Green, right?

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

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john vanlandingham

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alkun
Here is some science fo yo ass.


mix some ethanol (the 90% stuff form the drugstore or moonshine, if available) with your crushed dry ice, then pour that on, start chipping within about a minute. Liquids transfer cold way better. I found nice sharp wood chissles in 1/2 an 1 inch width to be the tool of choice, and with a little practice can get that crap off without heat or cold now, but cold helps.

Watchyouse sayin, Doc? Youse sayin the ethanol won't freeze and will remain liquid?

How can we make an emulsion or paste so it cvan daubed or dolloped onto verticle or near verticle surfaces, like tip[ping a car 3/4 over and supporting and working underneath?
Smartie.

(Haven't talked about the fundamental anti-intellectual undercurrent flowing all thru American society (under-current the size of the Missouri/Platte/Mississippi river systerm)
Do we need to talk again about you wildly throwing around facts and reason????

Dry ice is at about -110' F, pure ethanol freezes at -170' F, but 90% alcohol/10% water freezes at -110' F. To get a nice cold slush that would "stick" maybe try 70-80% ethanol, or maybe that hand sanitizer stuff, which is a gel of some sort with about 70% ethanol.

This all makes me want a daquiri...


As for other methods, I recently found out that the gnarliest chemical you can get without a special permit; gasoline, turns that tar as soft as peanut butter in about an hour. (Gas was leaking into the cabin of my daily hooptie, sorry brain.) But thats nasty.

I y'all're comparing apples to oranges.

Almost anything will take off that tar they put in footwells. Dry ice, gasoline, brake cleaner, hot wasabi, the stench from your old socks, whatever.

What's nearly impossible to get off without the deathray is the coating on the underside of the car. If you don't mind tired arms and volumes of dust, you can get it off with an angle grinder with a wire brush, but it's mighty unpleasant work.

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hoche
I y'all're comparing apples to oranges.

Almost anything will take off that tar they put in footwells. Dry ice, gasoline, brake cleaner, hot wasabi, the stench from your old socks, whatever.

What's nearly impossible to get off without the deathray is the coating on the underside of the car. If you don't mind tired arms and volumes of dust, you can get it off with an angle grinder with a wire brush, but it's mighty unpleasant work.

EXACTLY!
The tar sheets ain' sheet.
Petrol based tar sheeeut on old junk, sure just dissolve it dilute it what evar,amng..

The "sprayed on hot molten liquid RUBBERIZED undercoating" which the Xratties are BURIED UNDER, and VWs have a certain amount of--- for that you DO want to trade money for result
IF you really feel compelled to stitch weld...

Okay. So you remove the rubber death slathered all over the bottom of the car so you can stitch weld. I understand stitch welding adds to the longevity of the shell over time, keeping things from vibrating, rattling, being beaten apart.

Now, the question is this: Assuming an average of 1.2 stage rally events per year, when/how would the investments in time, labor, and cash show a return?

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

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DR1665
Okay. So you remove the rubber death slathered all over the bottom of the car so you can stitch weld. I understand stitch welding adds to the longevity of the shell over time, keeping things from vibrating, rattling, being beaten apart.

Now, the question is this: Assuming an average of 1.2 stage rally events per year, when/how would the investments in time, labor, and cash show a return?

Well obviously it MAY not be worth the effort. Depends.
Real cars of this generation got the full stitchy weld thang and for example Ford "Lifed' the shells for 2 WRC length events plus recce..

All that effort for max under 5000 miles total use before they'd sell the shell off.

It's all up to you..
These days I say to guys "do the easy to reach stuff and get the car out in the woods" Cultural pressures for quick gratification are too strong to fight.

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john vanlandingham
Well obviously it MAY not be worth the effort. Depends.
Real cars of this generation got the full stitchy weld thang and for example Ford "Lifed' the shells for 2 WRC length events plus recce..

From what I've seen (replacing the front end, removing the roof skin), Mitsubishi used a LOT of spot welds and adhesives together, many of the more structural areas are multiple layers thick too. Not saying I have all kinds of experience with unitized construction methods, but damn. There must have been 100 spot welds and a generous application of cheese holding just the flimsy roof skin in place.

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john vanlandingham
All that effort for max under 5000 miles total use before they'd sell the shell off.

I suspect those 5000 miles are likely much harder than anything I could throw at my beast, but if it were, some "nu math:"

5000 stage mile lifespan
100 stage miles per event
50 rallies
1.2 rallies run per year
41.6 year lifespan for the car

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john vanlandingham
It's all up to you..
These days I say to guys "do the easy to reach stuff and get the car out in the woods" Cultural pressures for quick gratification are too strong to fight.

My car is collecting dust for all the wrong reasons, John. It hasn't moved under its own power since spring 2007. It's time.

I'd rather have an almost-rally car on the street than spend the next three years "doing it right." Besides, if I was looking to be a contender, I'd be building a Volvo.

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

I'm still trying to figure out why you took the roofskin off.

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hoche
I'm still trying to figure out why you took the roofskin off.

It had a hole in it?

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2010 06:21PM by DR1665.

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DR1665

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hoche
I'm still trying to figure out why you took the roofskin off.

It had a hole in it?

Thats so simple to fill it hain't funny.
You should call more often. Despite the length of phone calls it would save you time...

It will make welding up the cage easy...

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john vanlandingham

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DR1665

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hoche

Thats so simple to fill it hain't funny.
You should call more often. Despite the length of phone calls it would save you time...

I have a car with a similar problem. What's your trick? I've seen a few different ways to skin this cat.

FWIW, the sunroof panel on my car is metal...

Dave

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DR1665
A quick search brings up a thread about some cat in SoCal what had his roof dissolved for $1800 in a giant tank of Lye.

Just for the record, I got $100 off for the missing roof!

I know it sounds like a lot of money but NOTHING gets a car as clean as dipping it, assuming that you're dipping it in the good stuff and not that eco-friendly crap!

Dry ice will work on the sound deadening material inside the car but the undercoating is too pervasive; the ice won't cool it, even if you smash it into a fine granular mix and pour it onto the hard to reach spots.

Would I dip a $500 Volvo shell...hell no! A $30k Subie....hell yes! That's why my Honda (s) is getting a little dry ice and some treatment from the Snap-on Crud Buster. GE = Good Enough....

Andrew (some cat)

Great!

The Death Ray method is intriguing but the gas supplier here wanted me to bring my own Dewar flask for the liquid nitrogen. How well does it work to get the crap out from between the seams though?

I bought a bag of dry ice pellets to remove the tar from the inside of my car. It worked like a charm. The rubbery/spongy/plasticky stuff they cover VWs in underneath was a different story. Hello wire cup brushes etc!

Even with that, I had to burn the crap out from between the seams before stitch welding, with varying degrees of success.

If I do this again, I'm dipping the shell.

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Mr. K
Great!

The Death Ray method is intriguing but the gas supplier here wanted me to bring my own Dewar flask for the liquid nitrogen. How well does it work to get the crap out from between the seams though?

I bought a bag of dry ice pellets to remove the tar from the inside of my car. It worked like a charm. The rubbery/spongy/plasticky stuff they cover VWs in underneath was a different story. Hello wire cup brushes etc!

Even with that, I had to burn the crap out from between the seams before stitch welding, with varying degrees of success.

If I do this again, I'm dipping the shell.

If the shell has most of the shit removed and is ready to put onto the rotisserie, I can do liquid nitrogen on a shell and seam weld in an 8 hour day. Provided the weld through primer is weld through that is.
There is no other method I'd even consider. Sure dipping is nice, but seriously, what's the average life span of a rally car shell? Let's say 20 events? If you compete alot you'll probably be building another shell every few years. Do you really want to spend a few thousand on something every couple years. Let's say your competing an average amount. So you need the shell to last longer. 5+ years even. Acid dipping removes everything from the shell, including all that nice paint that was electrostatically dipped or whatever the shit the factor does to it. You are not likely to be able to paint all those areas and you now may have reduced the life of the shell due to a potential for rust.
I've always been of the opinion that the factory paint and rust protection will likely be better than I could do.

Dry ice is for rallycross. SCCA style that is. Or a starter rally car that you have no intention of seam welding and just need to get out on stage. Stripping a car down is stupid. Get out and compete first.