Fun with VW gearboxes

Quote
Dazed_Driver
What do the .XX numbers mean? Turbo diameter somewhere?

A/R ratio

Hi Tom,

A friend of mine road races a Mk4 Jetta with a high-power 1.8T in it. The car is good for 1:27 or so laps at Mosport; very fast for a FWD car.

He runs a dogbox made by Samsonas Motorsports in Lithuania and is very happy with them.

Here's some info from their website:
http://www.samsonasmotorsport.com/index.php?21212203

Hope this is helpful.
Chris

Drenth makes one too...

Regarding a APtuning spool. Robert put one in my O2A a bit ago. He was less than impressed with the quality - He might poke his head in and can tell you the specifics on it.

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-Jason

Tom,

Here are my two cents worth:

First off you should do a detailed failure analysis on each broken part. You need to understand how and why the failures occurred. Third gear interests me the most.

Despite what everyone says, the 020 and 02A are fine transmissions but they have their limits. In a rally application, with an aggressive driver, there is very little margin. Add a turbo into the equation and you are at the limit. This situation cannot be solved, but it can be managed effectively. It takes time and money.

The two factors that are the cheapest and easiest for you to control are how you drive the car and how much power you are putting into the box. It is imperative that you develop some discipline with your shifting. The synchronizers need some time to do their job. Your engine is most likely a bit too much for the transmission and drive train. I realize that this is heresy but a fact is a fact. The Mk II and III drive trains were not designed to handle this kind of power and shock loading.

What to do?

1. Learn to make controlled shifts that give the synchronizers enough time to equalize gear speed. This will reduce wear and shock loads.

2. Understand how and why the failures occurred.

3. Turn down the power. Programmable boost/torque control is only a band aid with your car. In my opinion the Golf is best with the normally aspirated motor.

4. The gearbox and drive shafts need to be very high quality. This means lots of man hours and high quality parts. Make the budget to do this.

5. I do not think that there is much difference between a spool or well adjusted clutch type LSD. In your case I would sacrifice some durability and hope that the LSD might dampen some of the worst shock loads.

6. Like John always says, the power band of the motor will dictate what gear spacing you need.

6. Take a long critical look into yourself, past your ego, and ask what do you want to do? Do you want to win, period? Do you want to do the best that you can with what you have? Can you be satisfied with knowing that you drove to the best of your abilities and the limits of the car? I make no judgments about the answers to these questions. Your answers will however, put you on two very different paths with your car. Learn to work with what you have or get a different car.

4. Your infrastructure cannot adequately support your rally program. Do not underestimate the effects of this on your current problems.

Tom, if I had an extra bay in my shop and the time, I would offer to take over the responsibilities of your car. I believe that you have the talent to be a much more successful driver.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Quote
Rallymech
Tom,

Here are my two cents worth:

First off you should do a detailed failure analysis on each broken part. You need to understand how and why the failures occurred. Third gear interests me the most.

Despite what everyone says, the 020 and 02A are fine transmissions but they have their limits. In a rally application, with an aggressive driver, there is very little margin. Add a turbo into the equation and you are at the limit. This situation cannot be solved, but it can be managed effectively. It takes time and money.

The two factors that are the cheapest and easiest for you to control are how you drive the car and how much power you are putting into the box. It is imperative that you develop some discipline with your shifting. The synchronizers need some time to do their job. Your engine is most likely a bit too much for the transmission and drive train. I realize that this is heresy but a fact is a fact. The Mk II and III drive trains were not designed to handle this kind of power and shock loading.

What to do?

1. Learn to make controlled shifts that give the synchronizers enough time to equalize gear speed. This will reduce wear and shock loads.

2. Understand how and why the failures occurred.

3. Turn down the power. Programmable boost/torque control is only a band aid with your car. In my opinion the Golf is best with the normally aspirated motor.

4. The gearbox and drive shafts need to be very high quality. This means lots of man hours and high quality parts. Make the budget to do this.

5. I do not think that there is much difference between a spool or well adjusted clutch type LSD. In your case I would sacrifice some durability and hope that the LSD might dampen some of the worst shock loads.

6. Like John always says, the power band of the motor will dictate what gear spacing you need.

6. Take a long critical look into yourself, past your ego, and ask what do you want to do? Do you want to win, period? Do you want to do the best that you can with what you have? Can you be satisfied with knowing that you drove to the best of your abilities and the limits of the car? I make no judgments about the answers to these questions. Your answers will however, put you on two very different paths with your car. Learn to work with what you have or get a different car.

4. Your infrastructure cannot adequately support your rally program. Do not underestimate the effects of this on your current problems.

Tom, if I had an extra bay in my shop and the time, I would offer to take over the responsibilities of your car. I believe that you have the talent to be a much more successful driver.

Like, plus one bazzillion.
Hey Robert, you must be in town. Why no say Hi!?
Come gimme a hand jumping the diesel! Gotta go up to On-line Metals to pick up 40 feet of steel, help!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Find the guy I sold my car to and buy the Recaro/Gemini gear box out of it - I think he crashed the car hard so he might be looking to part it out. I think I paid around $4,750 for it by the time I got the diff changed from Quaife to Gemini.

I have no idea if the Gemini box will last behind the turbo but I was told by some South African guy who worked for Recaro/Gemini who serviced my gear box for me that it was the supper rare supper bitching good stuff that never brakes. He also noted it was a good thing it never brakes as it is very very rare.

I had no gear box issues or diff issues ever. Broke a lot of drive shafts/ CV's however.

Quote
derek
Find the guy I sold my car to and buy the Recaro/Gemini gear box out of it - I think he crashed the car hard so he might be looking to part it out.

Mark Lawrence... No idea if he still has it. QuattroHaus might know.

When I worked for VWMS we carried a spare transmission in every service truck. This was with a Gp. A homologated 16v, 5 speed 020, Gemini diff. Never changed a box on a rally.

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Robert....you are a smart man. I need to pick your big brain, you have time for rally sodas these days?

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-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
Spitfire EFI | Product Apparel | JVAB Imports | NLS | AP Tuning | USRT

Add us on Facebook | Next Event: 2013 Olympus Rally June 22-23 Olympia, WA

Quote
Tom B
Robert....you are a smart man. I need to pick your big brain, you have time for rally sodas these days?

he just left here. We were like ganging up on you and I's reminded him we need to shim your diff, come ON!

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

good, keep me in line! I have a broken transmission we can all stare at and wonder why 200 measly horsEpower is trashing "stronger" gearing...

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-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
Spitfire EFI | Product Apparel | JVAB Imports | NLS | AP Tuning | USRT

Add us on Facebook | Next Event: 2013 Olympus Rally June 22-23 Olympia, WA