NRS: simple 1/8" inch rule for lexan

RA accepts NRS logbooks, but a logbook is nothing more than a history of the car these days. It is never a guarantee that a car will be accepted at an event.

Glass would be a safety item as far as I'm concerned. Since I haven't seen any published specs as to what a factory thickness is.....

As to NRS in the midwest or even northwest, it is an organizer decision whom they seek sanctioning with. So I'd bet if you approached NRS with a sound plan for a rally you could make it happen in the midwest.

Personally I like the new rule. Thick Lexan presents a whole set of issues that glass doesn't.

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Josh Wimpey

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john vanlandingham
Saran Wrap? Trash bags?

Sure, I just don't get it. Why have one rule that says you need a minimum thickness when you can show up with nothing at all and be ready to race.

What purpose does the rule serve?

The purpose of the rule is to keep your arms in the car, so they stay attatched to your body. Also ther is intent that your windows will keep objects out of the car, out of the car, such as, but not limtied to Branches, large rocks , small animals.

Would a window net keep your arm in the car? YES!
would a window net keep a large branch out of the car (most likely) Yes
would a window net keep an Owl out of your car? YES!

would 1/8" think lexan? yes!

would a trash bag. uhm no. saran wrap? nope, you should see how quickly my hand goes through that.. if its "blocking" me from getting at bacon...

that's the real life sensible answer. that's also why you can have your back windows down 1" but not your fronts. (less concerns about something flying in from the rear window to hit you, or even getting your fingers out of it)

My comments were about the rear windows --- those behind the driver and codriver.

If you break out your windshield you can not continue unless it is replaced

If you break one of your front-side windows, you can not continue without a window-net (or arm-restraints --at least that used to be a rule)

If you break out your rear window -- you can continue with NOTHING or duct-tape cardboard or a trash bag over it. I realize this may not technically be the rule, but it IS what actually happens. No one makes you install a window net over the rear hatch-hole where the glass used to be in order to continue. They say "hey man, you might want to put something over that to keep the dust out so you don't puke in your own lap." and then let you go right out on the stages.

So, why is there a rule about this for the rear windows?

Do I need to add a stash of extra plexi windows to my service boxes now in addition to a windshield, window nets, & arm restraints?

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2012 10:23AM by Josh Wimpey.

The only thing I can think of, Josh, is that if it's there and it's too thin, it might shatter and send small sharp pieces of polycarbonate flying around.

I dunno if that's a real risk or not. I haven't conducted any hammer tests.

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Self-righteous douche canoe

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hoche
The only thing I can think of, Josh, is that if it's there and it's too thin, it might shatter and send small sharp pieces of polycarbonate flying around.

I dunno if that's a real risk or not. I haven't conducted any hammer tests.

The whole thing with polycarbonate either generic of GE's trademarked version "lexan" is that it doesn't shatter...remember space helmets...can have a little microscopic fleck of cosmic dust traveling 60&% of speed of light shattering Neil Armstrong's helmet!!!
Think of the children!!

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

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I had a machine shop teacher at LWTC who told us the story of one of his prior students refusing to wear poly carb safety glasses.

When asked why he kept taking them off he replied, "How are these plastic things going to stop anything?"

Mike then proceeded to rip the glasses off his collar, slam them on the table, got a center punch and hammer, and asked him to shatter the glasses.

He wore them after that. (probably a new pair)

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hoche
The only thing I can think of, Josh, is that if it's there and it's too thin, it might shatter and send small sharp pieces of polycarbonate flying around.

I dunno if that's a real risk or not. I haven't conducted any hammer tests.

I can't think of anything either which is why I brought it up. I really hate to see that effort was spent to revise a rule without any clarity as to 'why' the rule is there in the first place.

So, I hope the rules writers can chime in here with some reasoning.

• Is the rule intended to address a safety issue?
• Is the rule designed to address another issue?
• Exactly which windows should the rules apply to if the goal is safety?
• Should there be additional rules about how the windows are fastened to the body if the goal is safety? Intrusion protection and ease of egress should be weighed here....
• If the reason is safety, should we disallow teams from continuing when a rear window is busted and can not be replaced by plexi or glass the same way we do now for windsheilds and side-windows?
• Exactly which windows should the rule apply to if the goal is 'something else'? Competitive advantage?
• It is street legal for you to replace the rear windows in your car with materials other than glass or plexi (such as sheet metal). If someone were to show up with a hatchback car with all the rear windows "shaved" (think windowless panel van), would it be legal to run (in an open class like Group 2 or Open)? Should it be legal to run? If not, would it be for safety or some other reason?

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2012 04:20PM by Josh Wimpey.

I don't even know who the NRS rule writers are these days. Used to be that a group of scrutineers from all over the country got together on quarterly phone calls and chatted over stuff like that. That got quashed about three years ago and I have no idea how rules are decided now.

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Self-righteous douche canoe

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hoche
I don't even know who the NRS rule writers are these days. That got quashed about three years ago and I have no idea how rules are decided now.

Could it be?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

Sad to see no rules guys chime in here with any thoughts.

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The first post says it all IMHO.

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Don Kennedy

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imnotcrazy
The first post says it all IMHO.

So, OK great the rule is simpler than the old rule but it fails to address or clarify a number of issues I have brought up here.

For example:

If one of your rear windows is broken during an event, will you be allowed to continue without replacing it with plexi or glass meeting the rule? If the tech inspector allows you to continue without the window or with say cardboard taped over the hole to keep dust out and a competitor files a protest claiming you broke the rules, will the protest be upheld or a penalty incurred?

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The rules do not say you HAVE to have a window, simply that if it's Lexan it has to be of a certain thickness.
What about cars like Mason Moyle's where the rear windows are vinyl wrapped?

The most fun I've had in my rally car was with goggles and no windshield. I might even make a Lexan windshield so I can add and remove it with Dzus fittings for hill climb events. I'll toss glass in if I ever decide I want to travel 1000 miles to do a stage rally.

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Grant Hughes

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Josh Wimpey
Sad to see no rules guys chime in here with any thoughts.

Thoughts? Lots of people mistakenly believe that it's worth the trouble of shaving off four pounds and spending a week of fab time / ordering / purchasing / shipping / researching time to accomplish this. For those people, this makes it simpler than it was.

The internet will disappoint you if you want lots of in depth answers.

I've been at the beach. You (or anyone) can call me if you're still curious about sublties, you've got my number.

Cheers!
Anders

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