Need Advice for New Colt Rear Axle

We blew the welded diff on the 77 Colt at Sandblast (but still finished). Short term solotion will be to weld it back up, however, I think it would make sense to put an LSD rear axle in it. What axles did/are you Colt guys running.

Thanks,

Wilson

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"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

wvonkessler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We blew the welded diff on the 77 Colt at
> Sandblast (but still finished). Short term
> solotion will be to weld it back up, however, I
> think it would make sense to put an LSD rear axle
> in it. What axles did/are you Colt guys running.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wilson
>
Wilson there haven't beren any better axles and ring and pinions for those things for the last 20 years. Seriously.
And that's out here where those things were really popular.
In any case the so called big "big" halfshafts are a whopping 22mm diameter which is seriously underdimesioned.

That's what led us to grabbing a Volvo axle and welding the pick ups and 4 linking it.
29 or 30mm halfshafts, a stronger case, and crownwheel and pinions for $135 retail.
Trust me its easier to swap it in than search for crap which is crap and doesn't exsist.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

John:

I agree, and am lobbying the co-owners on the Volvo axle and 4 link, although Mike Hooper has a steady source of Toyota axles as he works for a JDM half-cut importer.

On that subject, can you give me an idea of the dimensions of the 4 link box found on the Escorts, as it is not clear from photos and I can't find that info anywhere. Specifically, I am looking for height, width, depth and especially the wall thickness as I am trying to find an appropriate steel rectangular tube or channel to fab them out of. Also a source of axle brackets (I assume the roundy round or street rod crowd will have them) - I need standoff from the link hole to the axle. Also, what rod ends are used, and are they bushed to fit the width of the box?

Regards,

Wilson

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

first look here for all of what ford did:
Skye
Skye Poier
Infallible Moderator
Location: Puyallup WA
Join Date: 2005-12-19
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 415

Rally Car:
'86 XR4Ti GpA replica



Re: Ford Motorsport Manual Scans
Posted by: Skye (67.168.115.---)
Date: September 14, 2006

Thanks a lot to Paddy for the scans and Jason for the packaging!!

Just a reminder that the Escort (original) book is here:

[www.rallyanarchy.com] ..slash.. EscortRallyPrep
(obfuscated to prevent web crawlers from finding it)
There's an HTML version in the html/ directory there.

Skye


______
Undercover Canadian evildoer
Rally car's almost done I swear!

next get "AA mfg"
http://www.aa-mfg.com/pdshop/shop/ catalog and look thru it for the axle brackets, and as for ends you ought to br able to get some "utility grade" rod ends and some rubber seals from "Seals it" in Cornetticut.

Make sure if you go for some toyoita pick up axle that ring and pinions are available here. Some og the pickups have 7.5" ring gears, and thats bigger than the Dana 30s 7.2" and some of the PU with taller tires have 4.56 or so as stock ratio so pretty good deal.
You may still have to do sumpin about bolt circles but stay tuned for the idea we hatching for shoving the 8" Toyota in Kevvies Volvo 240

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Thanks John.

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

so,
the four-link is fun and easy, make your own brakets for everything. bushings on one end is a good idea.
john co drove in my corolla w/4link. i can provide pics, look for them at
picasaweb.google.com/acrane

roger jackman rallied a colt with a corolla gts rear end in it. this same rear can come from many cars. (without disks)

a fella noted that while volvo stuff is cheap it can be a pain to swap gears, you have to "stretch" the case.

let's see how john/kevies toyota turns out.

Rally.

---

"I put the hurt on dirt" - adam crane
http://CraneRallyCrew.com
corolla gt-s "Patches"
Op: S.S.

> a fella noted that while volvo stuff is cheap it
> can be a pain to swap gears, you have to "stretch"
> the case.

Nah. Assuming it's the same Dana 30 as in decades of Jeeps and Ford four-bys, it's just a line of Dana BS. Dana recommends a special case spreader for all of their diff housings (not just the 30, but also the 35, 44, and 60) to make it easy to install the carrier since preload is done with shims.

I've never used a spreader. They go together exactly like a Ford 8.8 or a Chevy 10/12-bolt, you just need to gently persuade the carrier/bearings/shims assembly into the housing with a BFH and a block of wood (best is an old hammer handle). Over and over again, as you try to get the gears shimmed up correctly...


It's actually *bad* to use the spreader if you don't know what you're doing, as it's easy to lozenge the housing causing the bearing preload (that you worked so hard to get with the shims) to go away, as well as throw the bearings out of alignment. This is why no place I've seen actually uses one.

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2007 08:00PM by Pete.

Hey guys, just got back into town and a chance to read this. Thanks for the replies.

John...When you talk about bolt circle is that referring to the axles? I have a complete 4.56 LSD 8" diff here, but they are 6 lug with drum brakes and weigh 300#s or so.

I also have a GTS disc LSD at my folks house up in your neck of the woods. I am tempted to use that, but considering the wheel bearings are $120 a side, a gear set is what....$700, and people say the axles bend(I still haven't bent one though!) I am thinking it is not the way to go.

I'm thinking the 8" dif would be overkill, but if there was a cost effective solution to the lug pattern/brakes then it would be worth it.

SOme of the V6 auto 4 runners even had 4.88s from the factory!

Mike,
Be aware of a coupla things on the Toyota P/U rear axles:
1) The 84' and earlier axles are narrower by about 2.5-3" and are closer to what you have in the Colt. The '85 and later ones are very probably way too wide (58" flange-to-flange), and would require special offset wheels in the rear. Not good as you would have to carry 2 spares. Measure your Colt axle flange-to-flange. If it is near to 55" or less then use the earlier axle.
2) The early axles have smaller outer tubes and are LIGHTER. Another vote for the pre-'85. Once stripped down with the huge drums gone and with discs, the axle is going to be very close in weight to the stock Mitsu/Dodge rear axle. It will actually be about 150-160 lbs without springs.
3) The diffs interchange bewteen the early and later axle housings so you can use any later 8" diff/LSD.
4) The 2WD diffs/axles are 27 spline and 2 pinion; the 4WD are 30 spline and 4 pinion. The 2WD axles save a few pounds, but the large/bolt/circle 6 lug flanges on the 4WD axles are more easily turned down to a 4 lug than the 5 lug, smaller bolt-circle 2WD flanges. Use the 4WD axles and diffs. The 4wd, 4-pinion diff is the strong one that you want.
5) Pay what you need to for bearings; you will do them once only as they are so large.
6) Our plan for 4 lug is to ask Eric Adams to turn down the 6 lug flanges for a smaller inner step and to place 4 bolt holes on a smaller circle. It may require some welding to close up the original holes, but there is plenty of meat in the 6 lug flanges to work this out.

Good luck!
Mark B.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2007 07:39PM by starion887.

Mark,

Wow, thanks for the great info. SO... The 4 pinion 8" LSD dif like the 4.56 you got from us will bolt straight into a <85 2wd truck rear end.

I should then take the wider 4wd style axle and have it narrowed, resplined, and the stud pattern changed? The 4wd axles fit in the pre 85 housing without an issue (diameter)?

Hi Mike,

Yes the later third member fits right into the early housing. The 4Wd 30 splines stay the same early and later, so you should just get a whole early axle and swap in whatever third member that you want. The early axles will be a guranteed bearing fit into the early housing and the splines will fit right into the later diff. I have not investigated the later axle bearing housings fitting into the early housing, but it is a lot of extra work that you don't need to to do if you just use the early axles and housing. All you need to do is change the lug pattern and re-machine the center 'step' on the end of the axles for your wheels.

Dunno about the spring perch locations; odds are that you'll need to relocate them. I hope you can reuse the lower leaf spring clamping plates that came on your car, as they are ready to attach the shocks. BTW, when I looked under your car, I am pretty sure that you have the heavier C2 lower spring plates and the larger diameter C2 u-bolts over the axle. Try to keep these or at least do not use anything smaller. This was an important upgrade over the stock parts; the stock ones are lighter, and the stock lower pin mount for the shocks will bend and break off with anything lighter.

Regards,
Mark B.

Hi Wilson,

We have a stock axle w/4.62 LSD gears in our Colt. Also have a 3rd shock mounted on top as Mark strated. Works really well, having launched hard on grass, hard pack dirt, gravel. So far so good. What about a Dana 44 cut down to fit? Can find tons of gearing and axle choices due to there off-road use. Might be a little heavy, but probaly not much more than a stock axle would be.

Where did you find the Colt? Had a line on a untitled shell down in Florida last year, but was gone by the time got the funds together for shell, travel and fuel. How did you do your fuel tank skid plate? I have to make one still

Have pictures of the rear axle 3rd shock if need. They are too large to post here, so will have to e-mail to you.

Brent

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Brent Dacres
Cincinnati,Oh

starion887 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

Hi Mark,

Know its been a while. We just stuffed a stock axle back in there for TN. We are still working on a stronger, more permanent solution. I have a couple questions for you.

>
> Yes the later third member fits right into the
> early housing. The 4Wd 30 splines stay the same
> early and later, so you should just get a whole
> early axle and swap in whatever third member that
> you want. The early axles will be a guranteed
> bearing fit into the early housing and the splines
> will fit right into the later diff.


I have not
> investigated the later axle bearing housings
> fitting into the early housing, but it is a lot of
> extra work that you don't need to to do if you
> just use the early axles and housing.

If the newer difs like we supplied you are 30 spline, how do the earlier 28 spline axles fit with the newer housings? Or am I missing something?

Thank you!
Hooper

>

Mr Wilson ...
Are you wanting to keep the Mitsu axle ..Those who say there in the know are not .. There are LSD and gears ez anuff...

Let me know

Captain Gear Box

Hazardous Toys inc

Dave,

There are MANY owners of old 1970's Colts and Arrows accross the country that would love find a source of LSD's and gears for them.

This is an open form. Please don't be shy.... TELL US!

Rich Smith