So are there any current cars worth rallying?

- Here, to study how $ 130 000 GrN Civics are built (go to "Honda Civic Type R" on the left):
http://printsport.fi/index2.php
- I don't know a single car in the US that's even close to Euro GrN specs.....
- The only reason Finns are using these super expensive cars is they MUST by the rules. A few years ago they allowed GrF cars and they had 250+ entries per rally in the Junior Rally Championship. Now it's pretty thin field.
PS. Derek - fly to Finland and rent one of these Killer Civic Rs for $ 455/stage from them and try it out! Say Hi! to Eero Räikkönen, the Boss.

---

- RWD rocks -



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2007 09:22AM by Topi.

Topi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> - Here, to study how $ 130 000 GrN Civics are
> built (go to "Honda Civic Type R" on the left):
>
> - I don't know a single car in the US that's even
> close to Euro GrN specs.....
> - The only reason Finns are using these super
> expensive cars is they MUST by the rules. A few
> years ago they allowed GrF cars and they had 250+
> entries per rally in the Junior Rally
> Championship. Now it's pretty thin field.

So even Finns can make stupid decisions, despite the obvious in front of the gubbarnas nose.


And at least the Honda finally got rid of that fucked up bizzare wierd front end shit and went to simple struts:

>
> Member of Swedish "Fart Förening"
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at Apr 1, 2007 by Topi.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I think when I go to finland to get shown how slow I am I will do it in a GpF car.

---

In the long run reality always wins.

I would like to say that the B15 sentra is being developed and dispite some failures we are shifting our approch. This car can be built for relatively inexpensive and is a very competetive car. Fast. It is very torquey in stock set up and is close to 200hp with bolt on breathing improvements. with the new RA wieght to displacement rule it is a great G2 car that if I can keep it on the road can swap time with most any car out there. we have sorted the front suspension and are working with some companies to sort the rear. I have a great car and I will follow the advice next time to not develope a new car but now that we have almost finnished this one I am happy with the results. Well maybe, We will see at OTR

> More to the point what is the dif between a Civic
> Si that we get and a Type R they get? If struts,
> and motor are all well we do not care as we
> replace all the struts anyway, and the motor, it
> type R the same with better ECU? What happens when
> we plug GpN ECU to Si motor?

Motor and suspension are about it. Chassis is also likely lighter, no sunroof, etc. usually. The Integra Type R's had bigger brakes--Civic Type R possibly. But frankly there isn't anything real special.

The Civics probably would be pretty good--they do have struts so could probably build a pretty beefy setup.

But I'm not sure any of the recent cars would be great. SRT4 seems like an okay choice, but not really any better than any other turbo front driver could be. The Civics would probably be decent.

Biggest thign is the newer cars are heavier but more powerful. But you can take a newer motor and put it into a older chassis.

Not that you couldn't be fast with any of the recent cars, its just that probably could be faster with a lighter more old-school car.

derek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Note that all the Hondas are GpN two wheel drive,
> likely about the same level of prep that US 2wd
> cars get in Gp2.
>
> More to the point what is the dif between a Civic
> Si that we get and a Type R they get? If struts,
> and motor are all well we do not care as we
> replace all the struts anyway, and the motor, it
> type R the same with better ECU? What happens when
> we plug GpN ECU to Si motor?
>
>

On specialstage there was a similar topic on the si and Type R/S and it seems the internals are different as well...

Oscar

---

rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

gemorris Wrote:
> Some I would like opinions on are:
>
> Mazda3 2.3 (curb wt 2906)
> Honda Civic (curb wt 2586DX 2877si)
> Honda Fit (curb wt 2432)
> Toyota Yaris (curb wt 2290)
> Volkswagen Rabbit 2.5 (curb wt 2975)

Mazda3: Of your 5 suggestsions, I think this is the best bet. I'm slightly biased, as I work at Mazda, but not that biased, since I still own 4 Nissans.

Platform is shared with 2nd gen Focus, so developed rally suspensions are available off the shelf.

The engine is one of the most raced engines in the world right now. Mazda's MZR engine is also called a Ford Duratec (ford throws that label on everything. Volvo's 5-cyl is also a Ford Duratec when they put it in a Focus). Everything from WRC to formula Atlantic uses this engine. You can find various versions of this engine in the Mazda3, Mazda6, Focus, Ford Ranger, MX-5, Mazda5 and, most usefully, monsters like the Mazdaspeed3 and Mazdaspeed6, which give us the factory source for forged bits, piston squirters, etc.

I know of three useful transmissions that bolt in. The factory 5-speed is light weight, but also a lightweight, I fear. The Ford MTX-75 should bolt up, and is available with a wide variety of gearsets, LSDs, etc. Then there's the monsterous (and heavy) 6-speed from the Mazdaspeed3.

Downsides are height (similar to Focus) and the lack of structure forward of the engine, making skidpate fabrication difficult.

Oh, and I almost forgot. Mazda does pay reasonable contingency for Rally America (currently $1200 for top finishing current-body Mazda).

Outide your top 5, I think the 1988-2000 Civics are really the hottest ticket for cheap, fast 2WD cars. Tons of travel, lght weight, easy engine swapping (you can buy kits to install any Honda engine in any chassis) and enormous power potential withing G2 rules. Their funky, complicated suspensions put no side load on the shocks, lowering damper costs, and have a lot more travel than most struts.

Honda won't pay you a dime to race their cars, though.

-Dave

rallyspecV Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would like to say that the B15 sentra is being
> developed and dispite some failures we are
> shifting our approch. This car can be built for
> relatively inexpensive and is a very competetive
> car. Fast. It is very torquey in stock set up
> and is close to 200hp with bolt on breathing
> improvements. with the new RA wieght to
> displacement rule it is a great G2 car that if I
> can keep it on the road can swap time with most
> any car out there. we have sorted the front
> suspension and are working with some companies to
> sort the rear. I have a great car and I will
> follow the advice next time to not develope a new
> car but now that we have almost finnished this one
> I am happy with the results. Well maybe, We will
> see at OTR

My last car was a Spec V, and I agree it's a strong performer. The engine is great, powerwise, and the trans is indestructible and already has a good LSD. The engine's weak point, unfortunately, is the block itself. The open-deck structure leaves the the top of the bores unsupported. In my car, that lead to premature head gasket failure. Stgrangely, it would only fail while the car was being beaten hard. Once you stopped abusing it, the gasket would seal again. In the end, I just carried a few gallons of water to top off between stages. I talked with Peter Cunningham when he was running the SpecV in World Challenge, and he said he had the same problem. He ended up running a sleeved block just to get it to survive the 7000 rpm they were running.

I also had problems with the rear suspension. Simply not enough travel, and when you start bottoming, the beam takes a beating. Mine cracked, leaving only the integral sway bar holding the wheel in place. Handled kinda wierd...

I think ditching the Scott Russel link in favor of either a very long Panhard bar or a Watts linkage will allow you to run a longer-travel rear shock without binding anything else.

-Dave

Mitsubish iCar with a souped up engine/swap.

http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.jp/i/performance/index.html

RWD. Rear-mid engine. 100" wheelbase, 52" track. 1900 lbs.

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

wvonkessler Wrote:

Wilson, junge, is it Wild Turkey? Brannwein?
What?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mitsubish iCar with a souped up engine/swap.
>
>
>
> RWD. Rear-mid engine. 100" wheelbase, 52" track.
> 1900 lbs.
>
> My opinions are my own and are not to be construed
> as representing the viewpoint of any other person
> or organization. How's that for legalese?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

A little Obstler (aka Slivovitz).

Just trying to think out of the box. Certainly a rarity these days in the fact that it is RWD and tiny. McPherson strut front, DeDion rear with Watts link and coil springs. I'm sure the tuners will get ahold of it. The prior generation Smart weighing in at 1600lbs can be souped up to about 125 horses.

This all came about because of looking at the SmartCar (also RWD) and its suitability (or un) for the stages.

Prost!

Wilson




john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wvonkessler Wrote:
>
> Wilson, junge, is it Wild Turkey? Brannwein?
> What?
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mitsubish iCar with a souped up engine/swap.
> >
> >
> >
> > RWD. Rear-mid engine. 100" wheelbase, 52"
> track.
> > 1900 lbs.
> >
> > My opinions are my own and are not to be
> construed
> > as representing the viewpoint of any other
> person
> > or organization. How's that for legalese?
>
>
>
>
> John Vanlandingham
> Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
> www.jvab.f4.ca

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

Tee hee.

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

You could almost endo it as easily as rolling it sideways, but it least it's pod like so could be easily rolled back onto the wheels.

---

Grant Hughes

I'd like to see the FIA homologated cage for those............

---

Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

wvonkessler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A little Obstler (aka Slivovitz).
>
>
> Prost!
>
> Wilson

That explains everything.

Don't you have medical insurance??
There might be tratments available, new breakthroughs is healing and regeneration of brain cells killed off.

Slivovitz.
Oi!
>
>
>
>
> john vanlandingham Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > wvonkessler Wrote:
> >
> > Wilson, junge, is it Wild Turkey? Brannwein?
>
> > What?
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Mitsubish iCar with a souped up
> engine/swap.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > RWD. Rear-mid engine. 100" wheelbase,
> 52"
> > track.
> > > 1900 lbs.
> > >
> > > My opinions are my own and are not to
> be
> > construed
> > > as representing the viewpoint of any
> other
> > person
> > > or organization. How's that for
> legalese?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > John Vanlandingham
> > Sleezattle, WA, USA
> >
> > Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
> >
> > www.jvab.f4.ca
>
>
>
>
> My opinions are my own and are not to be construed
> as representing the viewpoint of any other person
> or organization. How's that for legalese?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.