Zagato78 Dan Chairadonna Godlike Moderator Location: St. Louis Join Date: 04/09/2007 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 57 Rally Car: still in process |
This is more of a brainstorm gone wrong, but i was thinking.
People tend to race whatever machines are readily available to them. Europeans race all those fantastic euro-machines because it's what they have. Same applys here. So, why is no one rallying a fox body Mustang? They are cheap, parts are almost free, many engines to chose from, etc, and rwd. Gearsets, rearends, etc are all plentiful and again... cheap. I know they aren't the smallest platform ever, but they can't be that much bigger than a Volvo 240. Thoughts? Again, i'm just killing time at work, thinking of rally cars. Dan |
mothra Matt Smith Ultra Moderator Location: Wilmington NC Join Date: 03/31/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 546 Rally Car: xr4ti |
As a die-hard ford and mustang fan I find myself in this delirium periodically. JV usually beats it out of me before a fox body appears in the driveway.
As explained to me the big drawbacks are: 1 poor suspension travel potential; 2 heavy weight; 3 flimsy chassis 2 and 3 are relatively easy to solve. 1 would require some real work. Matt Smith Racing in glorious black and red My daily life is a Saab story (sold!) |
Zagato78 Dan Chairadonna Godlike Moderator Location: St. Louis Join Date: 04/09/2007 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 57 Rally Car: still in process |
I can accept the suspension travel problems, there would be some work to figure that out. The weight, perhaps, but again, a Stang isn't weighing all that much more than a volvo 240.
The flimsy chassis could be bolstered and reinforced. This could be a platform that has growth potential too. start with a 4 cylinder for beginers, then move to the more powerful stuff. That and you have a car that can double at some road race events LOL Rally-Stang! Dan |
Scott Manley Scott Manley Professional Moderator Location: Spokompton, WA Join Date: 01/03/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 226 Rally Car: XR4Ti |
Zagato78 Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > This could be a platform that has growth potential > too. start with a 4 cylinder for beginers, then > move to the more powerful stuff. > There's something more powerful and raced more often then the 2.3L? Scott Manley Spokane, WA 86' XR4Ti 37 |
Pete Pete Remner Junior Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
You could drop a lot of weight and fix the front suspension at the same time by ditching the seriously awful (geometry- and weight-wise) front crossmember/control arm setup.
Hell, Summit recent had tubular subframes for $150, although thwy were stock geometry. JVL is big on relocating the engine mounts so the crossmember can be dropped without touching the engine. At that point a lot of the mass in the crossmember is redundant, move the springs to the struts where they belong and the control arms don't need to be massive heavy things either, and a lot more mass in the subframe is redundant too... Some big-name guys say you can drop 150lb from the nose by going to their tubular subframe and coilover setups, and those are still supporting the engine... I am just thinking out loud. From what I have seen on the Fox-bodies, they are paradoxes. They make the tub really flimsy and with welds few and far between, splitting of seams and breaking the torque boxes loose is incredibly common (i do a few transmissions that die because the wheelbase shortens under load!) but then they have this enormously heavy front suspension all trussed up because they just had to put the springs on the control arms for some unfathomable reason. Especially as the car the Fox-bodies replaced had the springs on the upper control arms, lower control arms and strut rods a lot like what you'd see in an older Datsun/Mazda, and all loads were introduced directly into the tub. The only problem I see, at least from my vantage point over here, is that Mustangs earlier than SN95 are few, far between, and so sought after that they are absurdly expensive for what you get. Most 4-cylinder and V6 models are V8 models by now, too Pete Remner Cleveland, Ohio 1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing) 1978 Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver. |
Zagato78 Dan Chairadonna Godlike Moderator Location: St. Louis Join Date: 04/09/2007 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 57 Rally Car: still in process |
I can see where the suspension geometery could be a problem. There has to be an american rear wheel drive car that could be easily adapted to rally. Again, focused on the cheap and available thing.
Back to my old car books.... perhaps a Burt Reynolds era trans am??? Dan |
Pete Pete Remner Junior Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
UGH, those are AWFUL cars period! This isn't just general grumbling... they had the brilliant idea of taking a body on frame style car and removing the rear half of the frame. It's like the worst of both worlds.
American RWD car? Ex-fleet Crown Vics aren't too expensive, and imagine the fan reaction if you painted it black and white and put some gumball lights on it or something... Extended cab S10/Ranger aren't too difficult to find, either, and fit the "plentful parts" bill to a T. See rallytruck discussion... Pete Remner Cleveland, Ohio 1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing) 1978 Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver. |
Zagato78 Dan Chairadonna Godlike Moderator Location: St. Louis Join Date: 04/09/2007 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 57 Rally Car: still in process |
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sagsert Mustafa Samli Super Moderator Location: Arizona Join Date: 01/10/2006 Age: Ancient Posts: 824 Rally Car: Gaylant VR4 |
Actually it kinda got done 3 years ago by Kevin Lake. Back then he was working for a company that built the emergency vehicle light bars and his demo car was a bugeye WRX painted like a cop car. One day we got a wild bug up our collective asses and installed the 50mm Ohlins, race seats and 6 point belts and he drove it as 00 car during Prescott 05. I looked around but can't fin the pics anymore.
Cheers M.Samli Phoenix AZ Gaylant VR4 EVO III GSR (Stolen) Rallies are no place for traitors |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Mod Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Zagato78 Wrote:
What happened to the idea of getting this nice RUST FREE 87 Xratty I have here for $400? ------------------------------------------------------- > This is more of a brainstorm gone wrong, but i was > thinking. > > People tend to race whatever machines are readily > available to them. Europeans race all those > fantastic euro-machines because it's what they > have. Same applys here. So, why is no one > rallying a fox body Mustang? They are cheap, > parts are almost free, many engines to chose from, > etc, and rwd. Gearsets, rearends, etc are all > plentiful and again... cheap. > > I know they aren't the smallest platform ever, but > they can't be that much bigger than a Volvo 240. > > > Thoughts? > > Again, i'm just killing time at work, thinking of > rally cars. > > Dan John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Zagato78 Dan Chairadonna Godlike Moderator Location: St. Louis Join Date: 04/09/2007 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 57 Rally Car: still in process |
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john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Mod Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Zagato78 Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > JV, the idea is not gone. Was just more of a > brainstorm as I sat there trying to avoid thinking > about work. > > Dan Damn a better way to avoid thinking about work is to think about naughty girls, not flimsey ol American cars!!! Silly boy, what sorta Italian are you anyway????? My take on Moooseangst is they sure LOOK temping, but are either dead and gone or overpriced. Alll the nagging little things like stupid front end can be dealt with (although wheel/tire to strut body clearance is tight WITHOUT A SPRING round the strut body) and more travel can be found in the back by copying the Escort set up. A 23000 Turbo motor would be LOTS of FUN. But you gotta find a cheap one, cause you still gotta do the normal stuff. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
darkknight9 Kirk Coughlin Ultra Moderator Location: Saint Paul, MN Join Date: 01/08/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 493 Rally Car: Dreaming of escorts and xrats |
Zagato78 Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > This is more of a brainstorm gone wrong, but i was > thinking. > > People tend to race whatever machines are readily > available to them. Europeans race all those > fantastic euro-machines because it's what they > have. Same applys here. So, why is no one > rallying a fox body Mustang? They are cheap, > parts are almost free, many engines to chose from, > etc, and rwd. Gearsets, rearends, etc are all > plentiful and again... cheap. > > I know they aren't the smallest platform ever, but > they can't be that much bigger than a Volvo 240. > > > Thoughts? > > Again, i'm just killing time at work, thinking of > rally cars. > > Dan http://www.mayhemracing.com/main.html Moose-stang in action!!! http://www.mayhemracing.com/mrcars.html Kirk Coughlin Woodbury, MN and River Falls, WI Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est. |
I owned a 1989 mustang and it's without a doubt the crappiest vehicle I've ever owned. It's not just the suspension geometry/travel and wimpy shell that's wrong the the cars.. where the wheels are placed on the chassis is pretty shit. They are fairly close to 60/40 front to rear weight distribution you know.
Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Mod Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
hudson Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > I owned a 1989 mustang and it's without a doubt > the crappiest vehicle I've ever owned. It's not > just the suspension geometry/travel and wimpy > shell that's wrong the the cars.. where the wheels > are placed on the chassis is pretty shit. They are > fairly close to 60/40 front to rear weight > distribution you know. How much with two mid-west sized guys in it? > > Andrew McNally > Hamilton ON > 27 John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |