T-5

Hello All,

Since I don't own a RWD rally car or plan to in the near future this isn't really super important. But I have a question about the T-5 transmission.

I hear it talked about on this site as the obvious choice for RWD applications. And the argument seems to hold water as I see it.

- Lots of parts
- Cheap close ration gears
- lots of bell housing options
- Etc.

I was reading the build thread for the V8 powered E30 that won the Grass Roots Motorsport $20xx challenge a couple of years ago and they talk at length about how crappy the T-5 transmission is. I think they destroyed at least 3 of them during their build. Their world view is that the T-5's third gear is made of glass. Any wheel hop and slipping of the rear tires will grenade the thing. They also indicated that all of the Mustang and Camaro guys that road race them are destroying them so rapidly that the American Iron series had to make a rule allowance for them to upgrade to a different box to correct the issue.

Is this just a road racing thing? a V8 issue? I am curious how the two schools of thought can be so far apart on this.

IIRC they used a T5 from an early V6 Camaro, you can read the whole build thread on corner-carvers.com...

Here is the thread...

http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42099

It's long, but lots of good info...

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SteveL
This is the point in the killing spree when you really should turn the gun on yourself



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2013 01:38PM by SteveL.

Power and grip.
Most of the gearsets are not rated for huge power. Toss them in a 500+ hp 4000 pound car and watch them explode! 235-330 ft lbs depending upon gearbox. That's not hard to get to with a V8, then add in the grip of big wheels and such.

Tremec made some aftermarket stuff rated up to 600 ft lbs.
T56 is what some of the Ford 2.3T guys have gone to. 330-550.

I bought my z spec (330) box for around, installed steel bearing retainer, went through it to make sure it was in good shape, installed short throw shifter, 2.3 turbo bell housing all for under $1000 probably.
Tremec options you can count on 2-3k at least.
There are aftermarket gearkits from Gearboxman.co.uk and G-Force for not too much money for the T-5.

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Grant Hughes

T5's also have a reputation as being Butt Turrible in LeMons racing. I'm pretty sure this has to do with people slam-shifting second to third on stock shifters, which is a no-no. You push "too far" going to third, and bad things start to happen.

At least that's what the guys who sell the aftermarket T5 shifters with limiting bolts say...

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Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

Well, you can do that with most transmissions. It bends the shift fork... I did it to the t56 in my 99 Camaro. On a normal shift, it wouldn't go all of the way into 3rd and would pop back out when I'd let the clutch out. They only way it would go into 3rd and stay was if I shifted forcefully.

T5s are weak junk even in V8 form. There's a reason why used ones are so hard to find that when they do come up for sale, they run almost as much as a new one.

They probably might last okay behind a four-banger, though.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

I did read the corner carvers thread and they indicate that the transmission actually failed in low grip environments like the rain or damp. Not because they had some incredible power number. I thought the power numbers were pretty modest by LS series motor standards.

So is this a XR4TI thing which is why it is talked about on this site?

Seems like there should be another RWD transmission alternative that would be better suited for rally applications. Is there such a transmission?

I have been beating on a 4cyl non WC T5 in my turbo brick for 3 years or so now. I tow with it, do burnouts, go drifting ect. I just don't try to be a drag racer with my shifts. Having gone through a few now, I don't see how they are any worse than other stuff. The internale seem pretty straight forward, and the bearings are of a decent size. Any knuckle head can break stuff....

Quote
phlat65
Any knuckle head can break stuff....

And who drives the cars these transmissions came with, hmm?

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Quote
phlat65
I have been beating on a 4cyl non WC T5 in my turbo brick for 3 years or so now. I tow with it, do burnouts, go drifting ect. I just don't try to be a drag racer with my shifts. Having gone through a few now, I don't see how they are any worse than other stuff. The internale seem pretty straight forward, and the bearings are of a decent size. Any knuckle head can break stuff....

WHAT THE FUCK!!! Just cause you're a good and careful mechanic duddn't mean you know shit! Why wassis name said he read it on the internet that some guys say they're junk.....Therefore they must be shit.
He said the only reason anybody is talking anything to even think about s because its Rallyanarchy.
Damyum mang can't you read?
Lookie:

Quote

Seems like there should be another RWD transmission alternative that would be better suited for rally applications. Is there such a transmission?

There SHOULD be another alternative better suited.
Now just cause he's never used one, presumably , and presumably never opened one, didn't ask the guys breaking them if they used junkyard shit run low on oil for 12 years or what, we should hold that against him.
So just answer the question and point him to the better alterantives...

Remember, cost is NO OBJECT.

How about:


Getrag 262 with 909 gearset.
I.....2.337
II....1.68
III...1.358
IV....1.15
V.....1.0

fairly common since Ford, Volvo, BMW and Rover V8 works Group A cars all used it..
Saw one a couple of years ago for only $6700, obviously a deal since T5 break if you even look at them and grimace.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

meh...

its one of those "you can choose two of the three options" things; good ratios, high quality, inexpensive. A stock volvo trany is way higher quality, but the ratios are crap for rallying. The T5 I have was $950 freshly rebuilt, it works fine and the gearing is great, but its chunky and makes a ton of noise.

Quote
alkun
meh...

its one of those "you can choose two of the three options" things; good ratios, high quality, inexpensive. A stock volvo trany is way higher quality, but the ratios are crap for rallying. The T5 I have was $950 freshly rebuilt, it works fine and the gearing is great, but its chunky and makes a ton of noise.

Well I guess you canät read either. It was reported they were bad those T5s
here this is better and cheap, too
http://www.blocket.se/stockholm/Rally_racing_rallycross_getrag_lada_45863557.htm?ca=11



15 000:-
Tätstegad Getrag 262 nu med kåpa för Volvo B23.Precis genomgåd av Växellåds Guru.Suttit i Rallycross bil.Passar Rally , Racing, långlopp Drifting, APP K mm mm. Skottsäker växellåda som tål mycket effekt
1an. 2,31
2an. 1,52
3an. 1,25
4an. 1-1
Kan skickas med Bussgods efterkrav.


Annonsören vill inte störas av telefonsäljare.
Norrtälje

Typ: Reservdelar

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Albert, Sean, Grant. Thanks for the answers.

- Did you guys rebuild the boxes before putting them in your cars? What do you call a rebuild, since I have seen people define that differently?

- Are you using the 3rd gear shifter do dad that was mentioned by Andrew above? Or just not driving like a primate.


John,

I sometimes wonder where you get the background assumptions that you put around questions that are asked on here.

I will freely admit that I have not rebuilt a T5 or any other RWD transmission. I have never rallied a RWD car. I have rebuilt a couple of FWD boxes

I never said or implied cost was no object. I am posting on rally anarchy so a cheap solution is all but assumed.

The reason I was asking is that if a T5 has some major limitation that causes it to go boom. The purchase cost benefit could be destroyed by maintenance costs.

In my Folvo it is an unknown condition 4cyl T5 that I got in trade for a set of wheels. I just stuffed it in and filled with red ATF even though it is non World Class. That was 3 or 4 years ago. The wheels were free to me, and I got 2 T5's in trade.

The XR one I assembled with new bearings and seals, set all the tolerances on the tight side. It is assembled from parts of 2 bad WC T5's I bought on CL. One had a bad cluster gear, the other the main shaft had failed at the bearing in the input shaft. It was a 3.35 1st V8 box so I had the input turned down to 4cyl diameter. All in was under $350.

The new Volvo I got from Kevin has a 2.95 1st GM WC T5. It is noisy, but the one I built for the XR makes the exact same noises, and I had that one out and apart to trace the noise 4 or 5 times. Turns out they are just noisy. Race car.

I don't know what the shifting complaints are, I think they shift great, and the shift feel is good. I do not have th eshifter with adjustable stops. That I would do if I was drag racing. There is no need to shift them that hard otherwise.

I opened mine up, took it partially apart and gave some visual inspections, but that was about the extent of things.
I have the T5z model, bought for around $600 supposedly freshly rebuilt (which my internal inspection appeared to confirm). The z spec was the highest rated at 330 ft lbs and has the 2.95 1st.
Doubt I'll have much need for anything different anytime soon. If I ever do I'll just blow $10k on something really cool and sequential from Drenth or Selholm to show off how metrosexual I really am.

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Grant Hughes