Monster Justy Oiling...

So Monster Justy finally has crank and main bearings on the way! I had the crank milled .20 under, and subsequently had a hard time finding the bearings without paying 3x the bearing cost in shipping. But eventually found a local parts distributor that could both get them, and not charge 100 bucks to bring them here.

As per the JVL instruction manual on engine building, I scrubbed and cleaned the block until I was pretty truly sick of it, rifle brushed all the galleries, scrubbed pistons yadda yadda… Trying to find (beg, borrow, steal) a decent balance to weigh rods and pistons to balance, hoping to get that sorted shortly.

I have a question re-windage trays. No, I’m not looking for power gains, but the Justy’s main motor problem is oiling. The pump is pretty inadequate and modifying for more volume etc is difficult at best. So I wonder if adding a windage tray to try to keep the oil as “bubble free” as possible makes any sense?

Here’s some shots across the bottom of the block. The sump is tiny (3L) but I have added an oil cooler adapter and plan to run fat hose to a cooler increase the volume!

Thoughts?









Oh and one for the awesomeness that will be 3 cylinders of fury!



Thanks!

Matt

edited to resize photobucket pics...



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2013 03:52PM by Mad Matt F.

They're gonna pass a min weight rule and saddle you with a 14mm restrictor do keep the field even and lower the costs in Open Class!
You have only yourself to blame!!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I have reason to believe that the head flows best breathing through 12 mm throttles!

Are there a lot of circle track racers in your area? Dry sump kits can be had for a few hundred. It would gain you some ground clearance and a bunch of pressure+volume.

ebizzle

When you say the pump is inadequate, what are the known issues? Low pressure, poor flow...?

BTW, nice looking engine and carb setup!

Keep up the good work Matt. Consider adding an Accusump to keep up the oil pressure while you wait for the pan to refill. Fairly easy to plumb in, you can locate it almost anywhere. You have to overfill the sump but the excess goes into the accusump on startup so that's not a big deal. Great for that huge turbo you're adding.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2013 08:09PM by Martin Loveridge.

Hey Martin! How are you?!

Robert and Martin, I've thought about accusumps and doing a dry sump with an external pump. I am hoping to stay away from that sort of expense/engineering...

The pump problems are generally two fold, lowish volume, and wear on the shaft housing. In the last pic you can see the pump housing lower left, it's tiny, and the shaft runs in a non-lubricated, bored hole in the aluminum housing (just visible in the pic). That housing I have is not bad, not too worn... some Justy aficionados add add a bronze bushing, I'm considering it...

I think the pump is adequate if oil is in great shape, main and crank bearings are good, and generally the motor is in decent shape. The problem is once a bit of wear is there, the pump can't keep up.

So my hope is by adding volume with the cooler and the hoses, and keeping temps down it will last longer. And there is my question/s:

Do windage trays really do that much in terms of keeping the oil from being frothed???? Would it lead to longer bearing life?

Robert, I think you chimmed in back when I was trying to sort the carb issues when it last ran... Yeah they are sweet! Once I have a bottom end I look forward to finally getting it tuned!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2013 03:31PM by Mad Matt F.

Yeah, I know but I was thinking of the two of you. Ever hear from Jeff these days?

The two quart accusump is ~$200.00 and pretty easy to install. You could spend a lot of time making windage trays and little trap doors that still miss all the internals, and you don't get the benefit of having lubrication as you corner on two wheels. Or when the rapid acceleration pushes all the oil to the back of the motor.

Yep, I chimmed in on the carbs. Looks like you'll be making massive power now!
You can make a ghetto accusump out of an old fire extinguisher and a ball valve. I have a few friends running IT"whatever" or Production "something" that do this. I had an old VW that had TERRIBLE low oil pressure. Hot idle was not even registering on the gauge!
Anyways, 10w-40 Delo 400 oil or racing 50w helped for a while. If you have high oil temps, just run heavier oil and hope for the best!

Rapid acceleration... Ha ha ha ha ha

Martin, Jeff is good, his house is not flooded! (He's on the Sequin river north of Mactier...)

Hmmm... Home made accusump, that is in the spirit of the Justy!

My windage try was not going to be complicated, just a tray/baffle in the pan, but I sense maybe not worth the effort?

You could buy a VW windage tray and modify it. They're about $40 brand new. That could save you some time.

You got paint on your Workmate (TM).

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

Why don't you get the turbo parts off of a Firefly?

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

Quote
wvonkessler
Why don't you get the turbo parts off of a Firefly?

You know this guy?
The fucker looks like Messieur Mon Oncle. Big burly fucker with this wild beard..
His wifey was doing some deep cover "research" here at You Dubya so we met and ran around here some.. Fucker is a wild man, crazy.. That thing is going to be so fawkin rip snorting as n.a. and we've talked about working on the progressiveness of the throttle so it doesn't just tear the whole powerplant out of the shit Subie tin...
leaving the car hovering in the air like some cartoon before it clangs on the ground..
What I'm saying is that real manly men like Matt (comes from the word marteau (F) which came from malleus (Latin) for HAMMER!) do need any crutches like displacement of girly turbos..
3 carbs is enough!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

OMG John, I just spewed my beer! I'm hardly burly, since I shaved my beard. Sometimes I go a bit scruffy ( I hate shaving...) for that "in from the forest" look

You guys weren't stroking my internet ego enough... so I figured I'd just go hammer on something. 1 and 1/2 nap times later (how a stay-at-home dad measures time...) I formed the most awesome bling bling a guy can make on a chunk of scrap pine (yeah, forget hardwood, form on pine for a smoother finish!)





As for the paint on the workmate, it'll buff out

More slow progress...

But I started assembly which is a step in the right direction, get the thing done already.

My .20 over bearings that were hand made in a dungeon somewhere "overseas" came without the oil port to feed those fancy piston/cylinder wall squirters drilled into the rod.

As mentioned earlier, rod bearings are the common weak link/symptom of poor oiling on these motors, and have cause me grief in the past. This time though I'm trying to build the thing right, so maybe it won't be an issue (rather then a few new parts in an otherwise junkyard motor).

However, this leaves me with a conundrum. I could drill out the bearing so the squirter works, or... I could say forget it, and leave them solid. Obvioulsy the oil will escape somewhere, but with more resistance??? maybe the end result would be better.

Here's a pic of the standard set-up (not mine, stolen from the interweeb)



And here is mine (yes I know that's the rod cap... all the bearings are the same)



And just the rod minus the bearing



There are the reliefs at the sides of the rod but my guess is they won't hit the cylinder wall as much...

Thoughts?