Volvo 240 Rally build

There was a fairly big discussion on door bar construction a couple of years ago and the merits of either design were played out with no particularly solid conclusion from what I can recall. (Typical unfounded opinion web forum type discussions)

While I say there wasnt a clear winner, when you look at most of the builds out there, they tend towards being two bent bars rather that one continuous bar and one intersecting.

The biggest fear with using the intersecting design was that in a big enough crash the door bar would separate at the weld and start taking core samples from what ever is in its path - most likely a seat and whatever is in the seat.

I can't truthfully comment on how valid the concern is, just saying it was raised by many people with a greater knowledge of weld strength vs. solid sections. I'm pretty sure I've seen lots of homologated cages that include one sectioned door bar, so it can't be that big of a concern.

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First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Never thought of the possibility of impalement, and the thinking behind it makes sense. Though unlikely to happen if the door bars are welded properly, it's still a valid concern.

I've been mulling this whole doorbar thing over quite a bit; should I even build a X in the door bars? for the Fia cage reg's its not demanded and it and it would make entry exit a bit easier if I went with drawing 253-11. Of course everyone does the X doorbars, and in my head at least there must be some sort of reasoning behind it.

Carry over from road racing where it connects to the front strut reinforcement and increases rigidity of entire shell.
Most people rally Subarus.
I like a sill bar and a single bent door bar, especially with the a-pillar reinforcement and headwing seats already making in/out difficult.
What is safer? X or sill+\? I'd take sill+. Sill bar in conjunction with an X is likely most safe since it has more bars but how to quantify is difficult.

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Grant Hughes

Alright well I will put the sill bars in right now and think about X or single slash. I want the sill bar there anyway. Thanks for the input!

Ok these are for John and for anyone who has anyone to offer.

So got the roof done and getting the seats mocked up. Im not a tall guy (5-11-6 feet-ish) and I have an 1-1.5 inches between my head and the roof bars with a helmet on and 4-5 inches with out helmet. The seat supports are mocked up to a point where I think it gives an accurate reprentation of where the seat will go so i'm at a loss. The cage isn't a terrible fit in my mind, I jammed a sharpie between the roof and the cage to give an idea of the tolerance. So i'm stumped. John just told me Pat Darrow has roughly a foot between his un-helmeted head and the roof with a similar if not same setup. So why do I fail?

Also there is roughly 1 inch between the center of the square seat support and the floor (aka the point where the gap would be its largest)

how far lent back is the main hoop. hard to tell in the pics but it looks straight up.

It is, but how would that make a difference? It's the "V" in the roof that my head is too close to, zero issues clearing the main hoop.

Sounds like you'll want to buy the SFI cage padding not the thicker FIA.

Also looks like your side mount brackets are in backwards and maybe don't allow you to get the seat down very low. The back of the seat should be lower than the front of the seat. Drop that thing to the ground. Looks to me like the back of the seat could be inches lower.

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Grant Hughes

Well im pissing around with the seat mounts right now. I will let you know. I may just be going full retard due to panicking, really not interested in re doing cage, if I comes down to it I will though.

Leaning hoop back allows more recline for really tall guys.
Pat isn't a tall dude and John might be exaggerating. Looks to me like your seating position is all fucked, like your sitting straight up on top of the wheel.

The more I look at it, the more I'm convinced your seat mount is backwards.
Front hole should be non-slotted and higher than the rear hole. Looking at your last picture, you're seat can easily go down another two-three inches I bet.

Step away from the ledge! Not an issue.

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Grant Hughes

Breath in, breath out, whewww, ok. So here's what im thinking.

Heres a pic with the seat mount turned around, yup you can get the back of the seat where you need it... but the mount interferes with the lap belt openings. Also doesn't bolt down properly due to the contours of the seat.

Did I get sent the wrong seat mounts?

The seat mounts are generic... I found similiar irritating issues with mounting my seats in the Talon. Solution? Chop the part of the mount off that you don't need that interfers with everything (IMO).

Also, just curious (I don't think you've mentioned it), but how are you going to physically mount the side-seat-mounts to the car itself?

I'm 6'5 and fit in my golf. The key for tall guys is a slammed seat and recline as much as necessary, though I'm not recliner status. I'm using 1in square tubing for the seat mounts with threaded inserts welded into the tube. The seat brackets, which are similar to yours, have been bent and cut so they actually work.
I don't think you need to redo anything on the cage. Your main hoop is so far back that you should have any issues, even if it is perfectly vertical.

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HiTempguy
The seat mounts are generic... I found similiar irritating issues with mounting my seats in the Talon. Solution? Chop the part of the mount off that you don't need that interfers with everything (IMO).

Also, just curious (I don't think you've mentioned it), but how are you going to physically mount the side-seat-mounts to the car itself?

I have threaded inserts already made, will post picces of them at a later date.

Its ok to cut the seat mount? Wasn't sure if this violated a rule or some crap. I wasn't sure if they were generic or not. Was looking all over for a bimarco label and nothing.

I can see what your problem is. Your side laterals go way to the inside where they connect to the main hoop. Why is that? You've got an enormous gap to the roof (to the sideabove the door.) They should follow close to the roof above the door and maybe kink in a bit to connect to the main hoop at the bend. That would give you a lot more head room. Also, I don't like V's in the roof myself. An X gives better triangulation and a bigger space above your head. Your seat mount looks a bit high in the back, too. Try making that lower.