OK Ford pervs... (old 4sp question)

What is the rest-of-world term for the "FOG" transmission used in various US-market compacts in the late 70s? Is this the Rocket box or something different?

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Quote
Pete
What is the rest-of-world term for the "FOG" transmission used in various US-market compacts in the late 70s? Is this the Rocket box or something different?

Piccie
No way of know wif no piccie cause Frod USA is stupid.. The use different names and even different part numbers for everything just in USA and our colonies North and South of us.

so piccie and I can tell you.
But as always, more important than that is WHY--whaddya up to?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

This one?

Ford 4spd 'Toploader"

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Kirk Coughlin
Woodbury, MN and River Falls, WI

Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.

No piccies. Just noting that there's a lot of them available fairly cheap at junkyards within 200mi of here, as opposed to Mazda trans which have skyrocketed in price for some reason. I'm out of rotary parts anyway so I was thinking of doing a hot Zetec instead, and the bellhousing should bolt up...

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Fairmont/Mustang compact? Pinto compact? 4cyl or 6cyl/8cyl?

http://www.burtonpower.com/tuning-guides.html

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www.performanceoptions.net

Quote
Pete
No piccies. Just noting that there's a lot of them available fairly cheap at junkyards within 200mi of here, as opposed to Mazda trans which have skyrocketed in price for some reason. I'm out of rotary parts anyway so I was thinking of doing a hot Zetec instead, and the bellhousing should bolt up...

Go Duratec instead...Its current, or current-er and mo powerz possible for way easier work than the old Zetec--which really is just an old 1981 CHV with a tarted up head---and old CVH was never conceived as a hi-po motor.

There WAS a 4 speed which was what the Type 9 grew out of and it wa sused in a few things but they are now ultra rare--like I've seen a whopping 2 EVER---one in a $100 Xratty I got (same overall length and if its slathered in inch thick slime like this one was you don't notice the aluminum extention behind the iron case and before the tailshaft) but the geniuses could sus the Xratty clutch cable didn't fit in the hole in the arm, or that the stick was different--so no clutch and no stick--lotta fun driving that one home.

Duratec from a pick up should come with this Mazda box (got one upstairs I'm planning on hacking off the excess parts behind the bellhousing and using the remains as a basis for a GOOD Duratec to T5 bellhousing. The plan is choice since I like choice---and figure most people do too. So I wanna make it so there's mounting for modern annular slave cylinder--OR---external slave OR cable, that's the plan--already briefly spoke with a foundry, and the machining, well I'm a machinist kinda sorta I think.)
Mazda box duddnit have the greatest ratyios but you could do the ol' gear is SHORT and use 2nd thru 5th and fake it pretty good.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Duratecs are nice but still fairly expensive and the transmissions are super expensive and I go through an alarming number of transmissions so my goals involve finding a source of cheap transmissions, then find an engine that bolts to it that is maybe a little fun.

Plus, I don't think it's possible to hurt a Zetec, while I've heard too many horror stories about Duratec blocks splitting and rods snapping.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Quote
Pete
Duratecs are nice but still fairly expensive and the transmissions are super expensive and I go through an alarming number of transmissions so my goals involve finding a source of cheap transmissions, then find an engine that bolts to it that is maybe a little fun.

Plus, I don't think it's possible to hurt a Zetec, while I've heard too many horror stories about Duratec blocks splitting and rods snapping.

$175 is 'spensive?
Got one for Free ---one rod bearing jusssss beginning to go--real good call from my friend, and t'other for $175, box for $175 too.
Hell freight is cheap...when I send motors I make very small pallets!
Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec! Duratec!

I mean look here is a normal rally perv, rallied a Nissan rwd car then got an xratty he just didn't quite finish and lately has been out a few times in what I think is the Hintzs' old 2nd gen RX7 and he was just strolling by and saw a nice Duratec in this capri laying around.
Look at his genuine unrehersed reaction to how cool it is---and LIGHT...


Now come on you don't see him flippin out over some Zleezetec do ya?
Well there you have it..

By the way--there are currently around 8 million Duratecs in Fords on the US roads, who snows how many in Maz-dogs..
Get some!

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Yeah but you're in a different world car parts wise. The Ranger motor is $800+ around here. I can find the Zetecs for $350 and they won't window the block if/when it goes over 7000 and they don't have timing chains. Heck, one of the local yards can't give 'em away, so they were doing CVH-to-Zetec swap packages for $350 (shop cost) because the Zetecs never broke and the CVHs always did and a good CVH was a rare bird and you couldn't warranty them because they drop valve seats with no warning.

I do think Duratec is an awesome engine but jeez, they're pricing them like they're worth. And then there's the tranny problem - it's a Mazda design so they had to make everything different. At least the Ford engine is designed by Ford and they more or less stick with a bolt pattern once they start using it. (Comparatively speaking anyway)

The Ecotec is another cool motor - and they're cheap, because it seems like 9 out of 10 cars on the road here are GMs, but there's the trans issue all over again.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2013 02:46PM by Pete.

Car-part says you have over 20 Transmissions within 80 miles that are between 250 and 300 dollars.

If you wanted a 2.3 duratec and you were having it shipped theres a bunch between 400 and 600. There's 80 pages of priced 2.0 engines.

"The Ford MTX-75 (Manual TransaXle), is a 5-speed transmission developed by Ford Motor Company for its larger-engined front wheel drive models. "75" refers to the distance in millimeters between the main and lay shafts.

Debuting in 1992, the transmission was developed in tandem with the Zetec family of engines."

So, it sounds like a transmission that ford developed, it fits ztechs and duratecs... and you want to use a ztech...

I'd wager the mtx75 is prolly better than my g-series in my old escort....

Where have you heard of all of these duratec kabooms?

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Kirk Coughlin
Woodbury, MN and River Falls, WI

Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.

MTX doesn't help for jack when the engine goes in an RX-7... The engine is north/south and the transmission is next to the driver's legs and there is a single driveshaft next to the driver's butt and then there's a solid axle about a foot behind and 2 feet below the driver's head that converts rotational torque into flying dirt. It's a riot, when it's not wearing out impossible-to-find engine parts and/or shredding transmissions.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Is there no hope of finding/getting a bellhousing adapter and then throwing the money down on a transmission rated high enough "with a juicy warranty attached"?

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Kirk Coughlin
Woodbury, MN and River Falls, WI

Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.

Sounds like I oughtter call William of TSS infamy and tell him to collect all the pieces and I send you a 2.3 for $200. A set of fine H beam rods and no more rod failures to past 10,000. Cheap on flea bay
Of course that's assuming the nice complete everything there motor has been left out in the rain or run over...or all the everything isn't simply lost.(groan)
I have a stock brand new crank extra and am shortly making some nice steel flywheels because steel is real--not the junk aluminum stuff with a super thin iron face in ONE PIECE which will warp into a salad bowl

And you have something against a good chain? Rubber band or chain makes no difference... All I know is with 10mm lift an untouched Duratec 2.0 flows air good for 220 bhp...

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Yeah, yeah, do it right the first time. We'll see how things go. I wonder how well an EW oil pan would live in a NS environment. I'm sure someone's had to have done it before. I've been interested in Duratecs since Midwest's reports on getting 250hp with nothing more than 12:1 compression, good rods, and a proper intake and exhaust. And better cams bumped that to 300, with no headwork.

I mainly don't like chains because I've seen far too many thrown ones to trust 'em. At least GM made a nice fix for the tensioner, and told you how to do it in your own garage. (Drill out the tensioner, tap it, stick a bolt in it, and adjust it manually. Done.) Plus chains make an engine bigger and heavier because the OEMs figure people don't like noise so they cover the front of the engine with lots of thick aluminum. (Or they stick the chains in the bellhousing so the noise gets lost in there - the VW inline five is almost as short as the belt-drive four because of this) That's the main reason I like the Zetec so much, besides its unkillability. They're awfully small and light. (And if you squint and rub some vaseline on your glasses it looks like a BDA)

Putzing around, I confirmed that the "FOG" is the Type E, for what it's worth.

I've been using an aluminum flywheel for quite a long time now, probably five years and god knows how many miles, 50-60k? No clutch slip means no heat, so no problem. Expensive, though. Good thing it came with an engine!

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2013 07:01PM by Pete.