Volvo 240 Shell Prep... guide me!!!

Well after scouring the internet for far too many hours and not coming up with answers to my questions I figured I would ask on here, seems to be no lack of volvo enthusiasts around here.

1. Stuff to remove?

Should I remove this steel divider between the interior and the trunk (first photo)? Though my searches i've seen people who removed it and in one case a guy who actually filled in the cutouts on it with more sheet metal. What's best, why?

The sheet metal "shelves" the seats sit on (photo 2), should I remove them? How are you mounting your fia seat in your volvo (keep in mind I am working with cars rules and the mounts either have to be oem or built to the fia specs.

2. Cage details?
The main roll bar, should it be attached to the floor before where the rear seats would be or should it be on the raised part, literally would be going right through the seats?

3. Seem welding.
Where and where not to do it?

The rear panel is optional unless you have a fuel source in the trunk. Then it would need to be sealed off.

I would personally mount the main hoop on the raised area at the front of the back seat and not the floor. Gives you more interior room and then the cage mounts won't get blasted from beneath by gravel. I've seen cars with the floor area totally worn out in that area.

Seats, usually we recommend welding tubular mounts off of the cage. Not sure what CARS likes. Check with a local scrutineer if possible. Remember that many of us are not 'experts' on CARS rules and techniques.

Seam welding, always good for a discussion. I sometimes weld around the strut towers, suspension mounts and such. I don't believe in seam welding a whole chassis on a rally car.

If you can find the build thread on this car http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?7,75646,75658#msg-75658 it has lots of nice pics and was done well.

The seat pedestals should be removed, it makes it so you can mount the seats 3-4 inches lower, which is where they need to go.


The rear bulkhead does not need to be removed unless you are doing rear turrets.

Quote
alkun
The seat pedestals should be removed, it makes it so you can mount the seats 3-4 inches lower, which is where they need to go.


The rear bulkhead does not need to be removed unless you are doing rear turrets.

And of course he's doing rear turrets, that's the key to happiness, the meaning life, the universe and everything!!!!

iddn he?

You ARE doing towers aren't ya?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Here is the link to my last build thread. : http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,61137,61137#msg-61137

Be nice if we could find Blake and Pat Derows and Ian Toppings builds since there like 8-10 Volvos being built..

And then sticky them.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
phlat65
Here is the link to my last build thread. : http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,61137,61137#msg-61137

Thanks for the link, I will definitely be going through it this evening!

Funny enough I was trying to find your build myself and came across Pat Darrows 240 build. Link if someone wants to sticky it. :http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,61990,page=1 From skimming it though lots of good info and quality car, also he removed the seat pedestals... looks like I will be doing the same.

John, I hear many things of these turrets but little of what they actually accomplish and how difficult it is to do, also cost?
Is the stock volvo setup really that bad?

Also on the turrets, isn't it something I could add at a later date? From what i've seen people tie the back stays to the wheel arches so it's not like the cage would interfere with building the turrets?

Quote
Eric Ewert

Quote
phlat65
Here is the link to my last build thread. : http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,61137,61137#msg-61137

Thanks for the link, I will definitely be going through it this evening!

Funny enough I was trying to find your build myself and came across Pat Darrows 240 build. Link if someone wants to sticky it. :http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,61990,page=1 From skimming it though lots of good info and quality car, also he removed the seat pedestals... looks like I will be doing the same.

John, I hear many things of these turrets but little of what they actually accomplish and how difficult it is to do, also cost?
Is the stock volvo setup really that bad?

Also on the turrets, isn't it something I could add at a later date? From what i've seen people tie the back stays to the wheel arches so it's not like the cage would interfere with building the turrets?

Well first time's short, I gotta go carve on a Toyota axle and make it into a Volvo axle, so: assumption 1 is you want to have lotsa fun romping on the gas. Premise: job no1 is finding grip when there isn't lots so either go AWD or maximize the cars ability to get grip.
We know that with longer travel we can spring it more compliant and get grip over all the uphill and downhill sides of the bumps and being softer let it comply--not skitter around... If travel is shorter we must make it stiffer or we use all travel just from weight shift when giving it the full wellie, so we make the travel longer, it squats we get grip and we still have travel; left over for bumps AND dips and crowed roads...

So we put in towers first, move the longer 10--or 9.6" travel shocks to the axle and let it hunker go and put the power down...

Next, can be done separate or same time, we go long upper and lower links because the describe shallower--flatter arcs as the swing up and down...flatter arcs of a 28" link will pull and push on the axle less than the OEM links, especially the short upper..
If because of short arc the link is pushing and pulling on the axle, the axle is moving around just when you want to to be stable..say left trying to move forward as it really compresses, the right being level not pulling forward..see?.
one side getting pulled forward in compression , the other getting push back then pulled forward, it can be a mess.
So longer them better..

The towers are easiest when done before back stays and diagonals or rear X cause then you can attach those to the tower--and the towers being say .088 wall its min twice as thick as the car skin, possibly more---the cage forces are directed into a strong part...And the reverse is also true and significant: the shock loads are directed up and into the cage where the loads are resolved--dispersed..

More later I have to run

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
Eric Ewert

Quote
phlat65


Also on the turrets, isn't it something I could add at a later date? From what i've seen people tie the back stays to the wheel arches so it's not like the cage would interfere with building the turrets?

More later I have to run

When you have a minute please continue on... i'm still listening.

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
Eric Ewert

Quote
phlat65


Also on the turrets, isn't it something I could add at a later date? From what i've seen people tie the back stays to the wheel arches so it's not like the cage would interfere with building the turrets?

More later I have to run

When you have a minute please continue on... i'm still listening.

But now i have to fill the holes in the axles with weld and then go machine the flanges down

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2013 10:46PM by john vanlandingham.

All good, like I said when you get a chance.

Well got all my questions answered except for one... details on seam welding a 240? Anyone?

http://www.carsrally.ca/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=170&Itemid=57&lang=en

Here's the link to the cars regulations. Be sure to note the dates that acceptable cage building musts are as some of the diagrams are for grandfathered designs I believe. Pg 82 if my me key serves me correct which it never does. As well specify wether it's a production build ( I hope so I want someone to race against) or gr2 as far as acceptable mods go.

Lastly check with the csscc I believe they run the rally's round those parts he c's scrutineers should be fairly abundant and they are good with returning emails.

Hope this helps

---

All bridges burnt, island life is beauty

Well those former 4 Runner axle shafts are now Volvo 240 axle shafts, weld the holes, lathe up some centering stubs, weld those and then carve-carve and now just drill 10 holes (as soon as i figure out what set up I can best use) and somebody in Missouri is going to be very happy..


Stitch welding.
Gene says he doesn't "belive" in stitch rally cars...I think it is kinda interesting that in the ONLY rally specific books available in Engrish
Chapter 1, paragraph 1 in both the Escort book and 10 years later in the Sierra book it begins with BODY SHELL strengthening and welding.

The guys that built the cars are gear-heads, but the people that write and publish--and edit books aren't just stapling random shit in random order.

The bodyshell is the foundation of everything and is always decise if the car is going to be a good car--road or rally--it said that more or less in the wrong language for youse mooks in Saabs SDport and rally preparation stuffs.

Easiest in thinking is to do what Ford said "Start with a absolutely clean shell running a 1/2" bead every 1 1/2" or so along every bodyshell seam that you can see and reach in the entire car.."
So easy to not think but a lotta doing..

I've begun thinking "stitch whats easier where your working but do the heroic EVERY seam on your next shell"
Casue if you drive like you should, the first shell is going to suffer. Like die.

As for turrets, the last one i made I just found some handy 40 foot pipe that weight 1200 lbs, grabbed the overhead crane, lifted the pipe up and slipped a rectangle of 080" or 2mm sheet under, set the pipe down then grabbed the sheetmetal and woth awesome manliness pulled the metal around the pipe and wailed on it a few times to give it a set...

The tops were extend D. I scibed a line about 15mm from the edge, drilled a bunch of 1/64 holes, more in the curved bit, bit up to the line with vise gripes and bent the metal down so it "shoe-boxes' on top of the sheetmetal..
Then set the top on a convenien stump of 5" pipe and used the pipe as an anvil and pounded the bent over stuff flat...two piece, overlapping sheetmetal, easy weld, done...

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
Eric Ewert
Well after scouring the internet for far too many hours and not coming up with answers to my questions I figured I would ask on here, seems to be no lack of volvo enthusiasts around here.

1. Stuff to remove?

Should I remove this steel divider between the interior and the trunk (first photo)? Though my searches i've seen people who removed it and in one case a guy who actually filled in the cutouts on it with more sheet metal. What's best, why?

The sheet metal "shelves" the seats sit on (photo 2), should I remove them? How are you mounting your fia seat in your volvo (keep in mind I am working with cars rules and the mounts either have to be oem or built to the fia specs.

2. Cage details?
The main roll bar, should it be attached to the floor before where the rear seats would be or should it be on the raised part, literally would be going right through the seats?

3. Seem welding.
Where and where not to do it?

Eric,

first off, for 2. I'd put the main hoop farther back, up on the raised part to gain more cabin room.

Give us a bit of info on the level you are building towards?

First time/having fun or shooting for class win/serious business pro rallycar?

Personally, on m,y volvo I didn't seam weld, and did JVL suspension with rear turrets, but stock rear axle linkage. Suspension worked very well, although stock upper rear suspension mounting points broke and needed reinforcement.

Oh holy shit here's some Volvo shell prep porn:
http://www.garaget.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=278431


A few spares


Now this is a LOT of work but its shooooore is purdy





Oi, does this look like what youse mooks started with under the hood? I don't THIIIIiiinnnkK so.


Of which he says:

Helt riktigt! Även om Volvo våldförde sig på systemet så till den milda grad att man fick ut 225Hk (!) i det homologerade GrpA kittet man sålde på 80-talet (jag ställer mig tvivlande till effektuppgiften).
Detta är dock det legendariska GruppA K-Jetronic som klarar effekter upp till Ca500Hk.
Boschnr börjar med bokstaven "B" istället för en nolla som annars är brukligt för Boschs tiosiffriga Artnr, vilket indikerar att det är prototypserie eller som i detta fallet motorsportdelar. Själva gjutningarna är tagna från Mercedes och Porsches V8or. Porsches luftvåg och Mercedes bränslehuvud.
Systemet använder sig inte av en varmkörningsregulator (WUR, Styrtrycksventil etc etc) utan styrtrycket (trögheten i vågen) styrs av WTT (utvecklad av Nira) med hjälp av en magnetventil. Belastningssignal får den från en MAPsensor och motortempen från en tempsensor. Detta sköts annars av stytrycksventilen på en vanlig B21ET.

Ah just what we did on Kevin's --now Sean M car: dual masters

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2013 12:35PM by john vanlandingham.