VW axles and keeping them unbroken

Okay, yesterday at yon rallycross, I exploded a fairly new outer CV in my highly powerful (100hp RV) deep geared (3.67 R&P, wide-open diff) MkII Golf.

What the fuck.

What am I going to have to do to keep axles alive once I start putting more power in this thing? The post mortem shows six balls, OK looking inner and outer races (aside from minor chewing from driving on it broken) and an exploded cage.

Really bugged me too since I was beating up on all but one of the Subaru crowd up to that point.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Man I really don't know.
In fact it is this exploding axle-CV-hub thing that is a large part of why I've turned to a RWD advocate.
NOBODY knows what to do to solve the things blowing up with powerful FWD stuff (much less pooopy little things like you'rn) while we all know easysolutions for beefing rear axles.

Try this: peel back the steering rack boots and measure the rack behind the inner socket assembly.
Carve up some nylon rings maybe 12-15mm wide, carve em up so they're "C" shaped,
and snap the in place behind the inner socket, so to limit lock. Try that.
and report.

Or sell the POS and get something that has conponents sized for abuse.
Try a Volvo 240 or an Xratty.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

We actually have a nice 240 who runs with us.

I was afraid that was going to be the answer, unfortunately. I like running the Golf vs. the RX-7. The RX-7, people look at and say oh, it's modified, it's a HIGHLY POWERFUL (cough) SPORTS CAR, but when you see a bone stock Golf lay waste not only to modified 2wds but most/all of the 4wds, that's just awesome.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Pete Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We actually have a nice 240 who runs with us.
>
> I was afraid that was going to be the answer,
> unfortunately. I like running the Golf vs. the
> RX-7. The RX-7, people look at and say oh, it's
> modified, it's a HIGHLY POWERFUL (cough) SPORTS
> CAR, but when you see a bone stock Golf lay waste
> not only to modified 2wds but most/all of the
> 4wds, that's just awesome.

Just says how badly they drive whatever it is they're driving.

And I've like GolfII since VW supported Kenneth Ericsson in WRC, they basically a good chassi, its just the cures for recurrent problems aren't commonly known.

I could maybe call round to guys I know in Sweden cause they have more VWs than anywhere in the "Real" world but I ain't wasting hours for folks not to follow thru, which has been the normal thing with Golf guys.

Beat everybody in an old 240 and then see what they say.
>
>
>
> Pete Remner
> Cleveland, Ohio
>
> 1984 RX-7 reshell
> 1978

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Weld the diff. My experience with rallycross and open diffs is that you can be at full lock, with one wheel spinning at 60 mph, car traveling at 10, and when the weight shifts and the wheel grips, there goes the CV. Weld the diff and you'll slow that down. Maybe?

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Grant Hughes

Once I put the driveshaftshop.com stage 3 shit in the golf they stopped going ka boom.

Use the stock hub not the little things they sent, ie send them the hub and have them cut the splines (broach) a stock one rather then one they make. Other then that a good kit for Mk2/3 kits.

Limiting the amount of steering angle is reported to help too.

Derek

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In the long run reality always wins.

In the VWMS Group A manual they specify using either a 17 or 19mm spacer to limit the steering angle. I've also heard from the Duplessis boys (who tend to go pretty frickin fast in their vw) that the use audi 4000 outer joints. In the 11 rallies that I've done I've only worn out one cv, but I replaced it before it broke,



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2007 05:31PM by Carl S.

I've started replacing axles after 2-3 rallies, depending on how much play I have in the CV.

New EMPI axles are only $75, which is a drop in the bucket compared to an entry fee.

1) Make sure your motor and tranny mounts are in better than new condition. Many axle failures are from engine movement. You should get less than 1/2" movement when pulling on the motor really hard with your hands--otherwise, your mounts aren't good enough. A destroyed "cage" is a result of over extension not too much power...

2) Replace axles with NEW ones every 2-3 events as they develop slop (as felt by hand on the shaft wth axles installed)

3) If all else fails try limiting the steering angle (I never broke a CV while rallyxing with an open diff for 3 years even without any limiters and el-cheapo remanned axles)

4) probably no reason to go with the DSS axles unless you have 180+hp

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____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf

It was in the original post that got lost, and I thought I'd put it up there, but the extentuating circumstances:

Falken softs, like-new tread
Extremely grippy surface: dry dirt, most cars leaving 20' of rubber at the start and rubber in the corners (GRIP)
5000-6000rpm launches (the killer?)
Two 100-150deg corners that required full power at full lock (or was this the killer?)

I really don't want to limit steering travel as that eliminates the main advantage the car has, so I'll just maintain a supply of spares.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Pete Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I really don't want to limit steering travel as
> that eliminates the main advantage the car has, so
> I'll just maintain a supply of spares.

When I raced motocross I rode Husqvarna from 1970 thru 1983 except 76-77 on KTM.
Husky had way more lock than anything else. I got spoiled.
Road Maico for some events in '77 with the least lock to lock in the fawkin know world.
Bugged the hell outta me driver in the pits and out to the track.
Never noticed it at all when driving.

Why do you 'spose Gawd invented hydraulic handbrakes?

That excess lock is for doin U-eies on quiant European city streets.
>
>
>
>
> Pete Remner
> Cleveland, Ohio
>
> 1984 RX-7 reshell
> 1978

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
> Why do you 'spose Gawd invented hydraulic
> handbrakes?

Different circumstances, different driving scenario.

In my experience, anything fast enough where a handbrake does something useful besides slow you down can be better dealt with by just braking later-deeper-harder and fling the car around. Anything slower than that and brakes only make you slower, a handbrake won't give you any rotation if you're going too slowly, it'll just drag you down when you could be ACCelerating with the wheel at full lock and boot to the floor. The secret why Golves kick ass over the other cars... I'm already resigned to breaking axles, now the trick will be swapping them in ten minutes or less

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Pete Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> john vanlandingham Wrote:
> > Why do you 'spose Gawd invented hydraulic
> > handbrakes?
>
> Different circumstances, different driving
> scenario.
>
> In my experience, anything fast enough where a
> handbrake does something useful besides slow you
> down can be better dealt with by just braking
> later-deeper-harder and fling the car around.
> Anything slower than that and brakes only make you
> slower, a handbrake won't give you any rotation if
> you're going too slowly, it'll just drag you down
> when you could be ACCelerating with the wheel at
> full lock and boot to the floor. The secret why
> Golves kick ass over the other cars... I'm already
> resigned to breaking axles, now the trick will be
> swapping them in ten minutes or less
>
You know as much as I like Golves, I sure have beat an awful lot of them with my old 1969 Saab. If fact there's only been 1 or 2 which would sometimes beat me and one was Jon Nichols. So i guess i wasn't aware there was some secret reason that Golves kick ass over other cars.
Could it maybe be that you haven't had a handbrake that works for shit?

>
>
>
> Pete Remner
> Cleveland, Ohio
>
> 1984 RX-7 reshell
> 1978

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Oh, locking up the rear wheels isn't the problem. Having that be *useful* when you're only going like walking speed and you have no momentum IS the problem.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.