Civic Hatch Gp2 Build

Hey all, I'm Tony. I've been following this forum for a while now, it's been a great resource for those of us just starting out. We're in the super early stages of a group 2 build, platform is a 1993 civic si hatch. Seems like theres plenty of potential, lots of aftermarket support, ind. suspension, super light, already proven, etc. Debated the whole build vs. buy thing, the full build excites us more so we're going for it. The goal is to have this thing race ready for OTR, first week of May. We found an unmolested platform last week, only $500 with a bunch of little problems. Got it running fairly easily (someone dun stole his ECU!) and gutted the interior, so I figured I should start documenting before things get going too far.

Next steps are to make sure the engine isn't a dud (brep), acquire bender (leaning towards JD2), MIG welder (leaning towards Hobart Handler 140 because $), and a few sticks of DOM. Then gut/cage/stitch seams. Anyone selling shop tools? Tubing? Seats? Wheels? I'm buyin.

Who's running FWD with a welded diff, how's it working for you? Also anyone with suspension input on this platform? I'll be replacing with more robust coilovers, I've read about integra a-arm swaps also.

Enough words, see attached pictures and stay tuned. This week ill be working on seam gunk and sound deadening removal. I'm willing to trade beer for wisdom/tool rental. WOOOHHOOO RALLY CAR

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"Just add more 'Stop-Leak', it's a Duratec, it'll be fine..."

Sweet build , those cars seem to be pretty quick and they have a ton of aftermarket support.
I am going to suggest that you upgrade the welder to something that's 220v. The 140 will just barely weld 1/8 properly. With a larger welder you can at least get the proper penetration without preheating.

Should turn out to be a fun car. Haven co-driven in one many occasions, one thing I am not a huge fan of is the lack of room even with a tight FIA cage. Lots of affordable aftermarket parts (think gearsets) and good engine choices make it desirable...
Here is a video of a well built, well driven bubble hatch capable of winning regional events overall.

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rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

Good platform for all the reasons mentioned above. I haven't driven mine on a stage yet but it worked pretty well for euro style rallycross.

Welded diff worked well in a high hp fwd car e.g. SRT-4 but you need to learn how to drive it and be careful when going slow and turning. There are good limited slip diffs available for honda's so I'd do that route.

Proflex makes a good damper set that's not crazy expensive (not cheap though).

some part #s to think about for suspension are here: http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,76139,76139#msg-76139 (While the geometry is a little different between each of the different generation Hondas, those dampers will definitely bolt up just fine on your car - after picking up the front "forks" off an EK)

my "new" car ( http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,90322 ) is probably going to run with a welded diff for now - but I've never actually used one.

integra parts - some of 'em do swap, no idea on the EGs. with the EF, the DA knuckle is pretty close dimensionally, but a bit beefier and with a bigger wheel bearing. I'm pretty sure the EGs have a bigger wheel bearing than the EF already, so there not be as much to gain for you.

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KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com

Robert: Yeah I'd like to go for a 220V welder, but the shop where I'm working only has 110V, there are 4 x 30 amp fuses (I didn't even know those existed until last week). The shop is 100ft back into the woods, so no 220V for now. I could move the project into the attached 2 car and use the dryer outlet, which was already modified for a welder plug. Hmmmm

Aaron: Hey I've seen your EF thread before. Yeah, I think I'll weld it for now and get back to it when I have more cash. Then again, not sure if I want to go in there twice, ya know? Have you driven the EF with the b18 in there? How are those Bilsteins, do you think they're worth the extra cost? And I'm jealous of your Comps!

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"Just add more 'Stop-Leak', it's a Duratec, it'll be fine..."

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Dirt McGirt
Yeah, I think I'll weld it for now and get back to it when I have more cash. Then again, not sure if I want to go in there twice, ya know? Have you driven the EF with the b18 in there? How are those Bilsteins, do you think they're worth the extra cost? And I'm jealous of your Comps!

Unless you're planning on sticking with a D-series engine long term (and/or get a screamin' deal), I wouldn't bother spending the money on a proper diff for it. There's not exactly a huge resale market for good clutch-style diffs for the D-series, and other engine options have a lot more potential (as well as a lot more gearing and LSD options).

Haven't driven the "new" car more than on and off the trailer, then into the garage. The shift linkage and trans that are in the car right now are properly fucked - I'm honestly impressed that the previous owner raced it in this condition.

I've only rallycrossed on the Bilsteins so far, but they've been great for that. I'm not sure what you mean about extra cost - you're looking at about $500 for the shocks, add in a revalve & spacer removal, perches and springs, and you should have a reasonably good stage rally suspension for right about $1k.

If you dig up George Douganis' old build thread on here (username gkd I think), that's exactly where he started. I believe the car is still on the same fronts, and has been turning decent results in the hands of its current owner.

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KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com

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Dirt McGirt
The shop is 100ft back into the woods, so no 220V for now. I could move the project into the attached 2 car and use the dryer outlet, which was already modified for a welder plug. Hmmmm

We have a 100ft extension cord we made for welding. I'm not sure of the voltage drop, but it works well enough for 3/8in welding.

We're looking into a b18b swap of some sort, pricing things/time out at the moment. I've been a little worried about the dreaded d-series ceiling. It's easy to get distracted with these engines, so many things to know. We left our engine as the last upgrade point on our last race car, never got around to it and really craved more power.

So the 100ft cord's working okay for you? Did you make it yourself? You've got me thinking now.

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"Just add more 'Stop-Leak', it's a Duratec, it'll be fine..."

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Dirt McGirt
We're looking into a b18b swap of some sort, pricing things/time out at the moment. I've been a little worried about the dreaded d-series ceiling. It's easy to get distracted with these engines, so many things to know. We left our engine as the last upgrade point on our last race car, never got around to it and really craved more power.

any notion of a ceiling is overplayed by fanbois IMO. SCCA IT(A?) cars are making somewhere in the ballpark of 120whp out of the D16A6 with a pretty strong limit on modifications, seen some plenty interesting turbo builds (think 11+:1 compression + a little bitty turbo) making a very usable 200+whp.

however, pretty much anything you can do to a D, you can do to a B for about the same money, and probably get more power out. Combined with the limited drivetrain options (1 gearset each from Gear-X and MFactory, only clutch diff in production is MFactory), it doesn't make much sense to me to put a lot of money into a d-series engine/drivetrain.

If it weren't for the fact that the stage car came with a B in it, I wouldn't be running one initially. Honestly it has crossed my mind to pull it for now, and run the d-series (with a kaaz) that I've been rallycrossing until I'm able to buy a proper LSD for the B-series.

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KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com

We used this at the fab shop. homedepoo.com
Well actually we used 8/3 SO, that's a bit cheaper.
Though at $3.50/ft or $2.50/ft, you can probably run some 8/2 under/over ground if you wanted. If you have enough trees nearby it might be the best redneck solution
http://www.homedepot.com/s/8%252F2%2520wire?NCNI-5
Add a box and some breakers and have something that's slightly less in the way.

Well, the plan for now is keep the engine, lower final drive (4.9 or 4.7), maybe a closer 3rd gear, welded diff, stage 2 Crower cam, Neptune/demon tune, intake/exhaust work, aftermarket radiator, AC delete, definitely rattle-can the valve cover(like +7 HP right there), and that's it. We can't justify $900 for the Mfactory LSD, or 350 per additional gear, when we want to swap up as our credit limit budget allows. Long term plan: acquire a b18 and build the trans on the side for a future swap. I've seen some of those FI builds online, absurd what some guys are pulling out of these little motors. Maybe this thing will see a turbo in a year or so.

A redneck powerline, nice! That's not TOO pricey of an extension cord, though I think I'll have to trade places with the old Volvo in the comfy garage when it's cage time, although I do think for this build I could get by on 110v on almost full blast. More research necessary.

Engine checks out fine on basic round-the-block pulls, charging system works fine, radiator pisses from nearly every top seam though, lost about a pint in 10 minutes.

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"Just add more 'Stop-Leak', it's a Duratec, it'll be fine..."

Felt like giving the dry ice sound deadening removal trick a go this evening. Bought myself 3 lbs at about $1.20/lb at Fred Meyer, but should've bought triple to make things go faster. I pulverized the stuff into snow and spread it around with a gloved hand. Was able to hear it crack and separate from the shell, pretty neat. Used a shop vac for local ventilation, still got a little loopy, definitely getting a box fan before going after the seam sealer. Came out to 2 solid hours of work, here's some before/after pics:

Before:


First quadrant:


After:


After:

Full HF bag of 10-12 lbs of tar crap:

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"Just add more 'Stop-Leak', it's a Duratec, it'll be fine..."

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Dirt McGirt
We're looking into a b18b swap of some sort, pricing things/time out at the moment. I've been a little worried about the dreaded d-series ceiling. It's easy to get distracted with these engines, so many things to know. We left our engine as the last upgrade point on our last race car, never got around to it and really craved more power.
.

I'm planning on pulling the B18 out of my Civic to replace with a B18C1 I've been working on. Pretty much stock, and has been super-reliable. I'd be happy to make you more than fair deal on it when I do. Will end up just taking space.

That all being said, you could easily run a D-series your first season and not be unhappy.

I'd recommend just a welded differential. I wouldn't spend the money on a final drive for a d-series (unless you get a bargain).

Really unless you have money to spend, I'd just do the safety stuff, get wheels/tires, suspension and go rally.

Don't touch the engine and transmission before you get a few rallies in the car. It will make enough power to start learning and still be fast and reliable. Get all of your resources in a good suspension and swap in some better brakes for the front.