RX-3

I started this in the other forum directory, but I figured I'd move it to here. Here're first pics.

Here's the reason it smells like rat poop in the car. I'll probably catch hanta or something:


The cage is bolted in, not welded, but the feet are securely welded to the frame. I'll have to double check the rules to see if it's a do-over; if it is it'll be a pain but not the end of the world:


The hardest part will be making sure the trailing arms end up in the same place. It might be nice
to redo them and fully box them in so they don't have the leaky plastic boot:


Center hump on the passenger side is bashed, but the floor pan is otherwise in good condition:


Nasty stuff is nasty:


Tomorrow I'll get it up on the stands and get a good look at the underside, hit everything with PB Blaster, and maybe start on pulling the engine and transmission. Once I get a good look, I'll have a better idea if this car's salvageable or destined for the crusher.

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Self-righteous douche canoe

you have just reminded me to make sure my car shows up on entry lists as a Hanta Civic.

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KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com

Wow, I wouldnt even want to touch that car. Goodluck haha.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2014 08:56AM by czwalga.

Man this brings back memories. I added the braces to the trailing arm brackets because they were being torn off the rollcage. It would be pretty easy to box in the trailing arms with sheet metal. I don't know why Paul Morgan did it that way, I guess it was an old school Escort thing. The braces wouldn't really even be necessary with steel boxes.

It's still FIA legal to bolt the cage to the floor, how do you think they do it on aluminum chassis cars like Ferraris and such? If it makes you feel better you can weld the plate. If the upper bolt together joints are not already welded you may have to do that. A pain in the ass with Safety Devices cages. Check the rules or maybe Gene can chime in.

Do not crush this car! A lot of work went into it, it's salvageable.

did you get a deed for the real estate it came with?

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

Ton of pics here: stripdown - day2

The problem with the cage isn't that the feet are bolted in, it's that the half-lateral-to-main-hoop and the windshield-bar-to-half-lateral are bolted, and not in one of the two FIA-approved ways, even for cars homologated prior to 2002.

Half-lat to main hoop:


Windshield bar to half-lat:



On the whole, the underside looks pretty ok. Part of the rear center hump is mangled where it meets the floorboard and there're some tears in the floorpan in the backseat area, but both of those look like relatively straightforward cut-n-replace chores. The bigger concern is the driver's side rocker. It was reinforced, but it looks like the car landed on something. Here's the outer underside:


Here's the top, and you can see that the doorframe itself didn't move:


But then here's the inside, and you can see that the floorpan's buckled:


I'm not really sure what to do about this. It might have to go to a frame shop. I don't really have any way of powering it back straight. Once it's straight I can fix the floor pan and redo the outer rocker, but I need it straight to do that first.

Any ideas or suggestions would be helpful.

And yeah, I need to adjust the white-balance on my camera.

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Self-righteous douche canoe

Dave, so far it's looking pretty salvageable, but I went into this knowing that it was pretty battered and that there was a possibility I'd have to put it out of its misery. So I have to keep telling myself not to get too attached to it and remind myself that that's a possibility. Fortunately, so far I'm not finding anything serious except that driver's side rocker.

As for boxing the upper trailing arms - I would love to do that. I hate getting dirt in the car and those boots are just asking for that. I'm worried about two things though - one is that boxing them would instantly make changing the arms a two-man job - one person to wrangle them in from the bottom and one person to feed the bolt. That might be a non-issue if they only need to be serviced every 25 years though. The other issue is that if that rear floor pan takes a hit, it might oilcan the boxes. Even that might not be an issue with sufficiently robust boxes. So my question to you: if you were to box them, what gauge metal would you use and how would you mount/reinforce them? How big would the boxes be? Remember, I'm a FWD guy and really have no idea how much vertical and lateral motion that rear axle has.


In other news: I can't get the rear window out. The rivets are all drilled out and the outer sealing goo is removed, but it won't budge. I could cut it, but it'd be nice to have it as a template for the new lexan. If I get a propane torch and heat it around the edges, will that just melt the lexan?

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Self-righteous douche canoe

let it sit in the sun on nice warm day and or get some music wire and cut it out.

it is a beautiful car don't give up on it, it's in better shape than its newer counterparts will be at that age

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I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

First of all, Safety Devices cages were always FIA approved. To make it RA legal you may need to weld up the top brackets. I dunno, ask Gene. Really, the hardest part about that is cleaning off the powder coating. Propane torch and wire brush is probably best.

As far as the dents in the floor, they don't look like anything so bad that a BFH couldn't handle the job.

As for the trailing arm boxes, look at some of JV's stuff. You don't need anything more than 16 - 18 gauge thickness. Since the trailing arm brackets are already incorporated into the rollcage on your car you really don't need anything thicker than the stock sheetmetal. You're just trying to keep out the elements, they won't be structural. They will still be more structural than the rubber boots you have now, though! To figure out how tall they need to be remove the rear springs and jack the axle up all the way. They have to clear the trailing arms in that position. Don't worry about the boxes oilcanning. Seriously, you worry about the most unlikely shit.

The rear window is probably just glued in with silicone. Get a utility knife with a blade you can extend out like this:

and cut through the sealant from the inside between the window and the flange.

Problem is, I can't prove it's a Safety Devices cage. The logbook has been lost along with any FIA paperwork.

I got the rear window out. Just required some coaxing. Also pulled the inside plastic off the rear inside the car and found that the entire area between the inner walls and the outer sheet metal had been filled with expanding foam. I pulled it out of the right side just so I could take a look at the frame and the metal of the fenders. I'll do the same with the left.

I found pics of boxed trailing arms in the Cortina thread. I'll probably just mimic those.

So far everything's looking pretty solid. The car was almost completely stitch welded at some point and that probably has been what's kept it together.

The front hub/arm assembly is sort of interesting - it looks like the swaybar also acts as a sort of trailing link. The lower arm is basically just a rod that sticks straight out.

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Self-righteous douche canoe

Quote
hoche

The front hub/arm assembly is sort of interesting - it looks like the swaybar also acts as a sort of trailing link. The lower arm is basically just a rod that sticks straight out.

Familiar, no?

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Quote
hoche
Problem is, I can't prove it's a Safety Devices cage. The logbook has been lost along with any FIA paperwork.

What do you mean you can't prove it's a Safety Devices cage? Of course it's a Safety Devices cage. SD were the only ones to use that joint bracket design, it's patented. I was there when the cage was put in. It was bought from Jeff Feet when he was the U.S. Safety Devices distributor. It was installed in his shop.

Still, even if you cut the old cage out and started over from scratch it wouldn't be the worst thing. I did the same with my Opel Ascona.

Quote
Pete

Quote
hoche

The front hub/arm assembly is sort of interesting - it looks like the swaybar also acts as a sort of trailing link. The lower arm is basically just a rod that sticks straight out.

Familiar, no?

I'm guessing you're talking about first gen RX-7's? You'll have to be patient with me; I'm pretty familiar with several cars but RX-3s (and RX-7s) aren't in that set. I'm having to learn as I go.

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Self-righteous douche canoe

RX-7s did not use that setup, but it was pretty much SOP for Fords of the era. I don't know what Cortinas had, but Escorts had that setup. They used that design at least until 1994 in various cars.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Well, I pulled the inner side panels and scraped out the foam that'd been sprayed inside. Lots of dirt, a rat's nest, and a couple of spots where water had been trapped so there was some bubbling, but that was restricted to the outer fender panels. The inners and the frame itself are OK. The rear hat shelf is buckled, but I think I can straighten that. It looks like it's the result of an old hit to the body and the frame rail below it is fine.

After a conversation with Gene and several with Mike Hurst, I've decided to redo the cage. I didn't get a definite "no" or anything, but the general conclusion was that a more modern one wouldn't be the worst thing, and since it's already apart and gutted it won't be that hard to do. I'll preserve the current upper rear trailing arm mounts (and box them in), and I think I can reuse the cage foot locations.

Half the front fender bolts snapped even though I was trying to be gentle, so I had to spend some time fishing them out. I'm going to have to fabricate a new left front horn section, but it's not structural and I can use the right side for a template.

In general, the news has been "frame ok, everything else bashed". I'm gonna get reamed by a body shop unless I can do stuff myself or find a local community college shop that'd be interested in taking it on as a learning project.

Whoever stitch welded this, thanks!

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Self-righteous douche canoe