Let's pretend I have a Volvo 242

A 1982 Volvo 242 DL, caged and running with:
Stock B23
405 cylinder head
Big cam
Weber DCOE 45 carbs
Stock M45 4-spd
4.56 gears with Volvo (not Dana 30) LSD
Bilstein HD rear shocks and R-Sport front strut inserts

Now let's pretend that a clone of Ramana Lagemann is going to drive this car against Ramana Lagemann in Derik Nelson's BMW...

How do I make the Volvo better in regards to suspension and power output?

Quote
Jard
A 1982 Volvo 242 DL, caged and running with:
Stock B23
405 cylinder head
Big cam
Weber DCOE 45 carbs
Stock M45 4-spd
4.56 gears with Volvo (not Dana 30) LSD
Bilstein HD rear shocks and R-Sport front strut inserts

Now let's pretend that a clone of Ramana Lagemann is going to drive this car against Ramana Lagemann in Derik Nelson's BMW...

How do I make the Volvo better in regards to suspension and power output?

How much comp? Not "I think it'...." Numbers.
What cam? Lift? duration, Intake opens ?BTDC, closes ?ATDC?
What exhaust?

What travel at the rear wheel? And which Bilstein HDs (cause the normal over the counter ones are limp-dick soft)

And does the budget theoretically cover a good set of ratios and a shorter final drive?
Cause normal would be around 5.1 and then 1st is good for like 1 car length.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Don't even know where to start with comp and exhaust manifold. This is all from a spreadsheet of what came with the car.

Cam is 12.6mm lift, 310 degrees total duration
MISAB intake manifolds
Exhaust is 2.25" with Flowmaster muffler

Bilstein HD rear shock absorbers
Stock '82 242 rear springs
1979 242GT anti-sway bars (21mm front, 23mm rear)
Polyurethane rear torque rod bushings
R-Sport competition strut inserts
R-Sport HD front springs (stock height but much stiffer)

This might all be bench racing or it might be try to make this thing nationally competitive with the right hotshoe driver. So, sure, budget supports spending a few $thousand on suspension, motor, and transmission.

ok. are there any headers?

The simple answer is always: Compression, camshaft carburation.
You probably have the cam, and "pretty OK" on carb (gotta know what venturis--you should have at least 38s), we can't say about comp.
Then the next simple thing is final drive.. 4.88 might do if you had a bad ass motor--
Then the thing that the BMW lacks: half way correct gearbox ratios..
If you listened to the videos even on the freeway like Saturday stages the gaps were massive and the revs plummeted...


But to address the premise: what couild you do to match the performance?
.match the numbers

How much torque x box x rear end?
Weight?
Suspension travel?
Brakes?
Steering?

I gotta go pick up like 8 gallons of interior paint but more later

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Volvo as described is likely at least 60 hp less than Deriks BMW; 2 less cylinders, 0.6L less dislacement... header from KG Trimming and a bunch of motor work (big valves, head work, perhaps pistons) might start to close the gap, but a turbo motor would be way more cost effective.

Suspension: JVABs or Selholms ($$$$) would be in order to get near to same level as the Reigers in the BMW..

Gearbox: T5 helps a lot, but the Selholm dog box looks tasty (again $$$)

This weekend might shed light, Jardevall will be debuting a well built volvo 940 turbo, it should be good competition for the M3s.

The BMW will always have more torque than a NA Volvo.

I have removed and field striped one of the struts on Derek's car. Although they are dimensionally similar to the JVABs there is no comparison in performance.

Having said all this I think that the Volvo is still better for many reasons.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Here are the targets to shoot for, as I know Deriks car well
2650lbs ready to rally
215hp @wheels
4:1 R&P
Stock gearbox
Approx 60% weight o the front
VERY good brakes
VERY good suspension

Wait till it gets a sequential 6 spd......

Quote
Rallymech
The BMW will always have more torque than a NA Volvo.

I have removed and field striped one of the struts on Derek's car. Although they are dimensionally similar to the JVABs there is no comparison in performance.

Having said all this I think that the Volvo is still better for many reasons.

Gawddammit Robert, speak like you know sumpin.
The 3000cc BMW probably WILL always have more torque made by the engine....than the torque of a little ol 2364cc Volvo

But multiply it thru the gears and thru the axle and look what you have then...

Is that clear to others?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2014 10:03AM by john vanlandingham.

Is there a speck sheet or build thread for Derek's car? Just so those at home can see what this volvo is being compared to.

Quote
Andrew_Frick
Is there a speck sheet or build thread for Derek's car? Just so those at home can see what this volvo is being compared to.

2650lbs ready to rally
215hp @wheels
4:1 R&P
Stock gearbox (ratios?)
Approx 60% weight o the front
VERY good brakes
VERY good suspension

Books say 225 ft/lbs of torques

Be amusing to add real ordinary PRICE to everything too, that IS part of the consideration for most people

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
[
VERY good brakes
VERY good suspension

Any more information on these parts. Is it is just Reiger springs and dampers and everything else is stock BMW M3 stuff? Or is there other stuff going on.

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Andrew_Frick
Is it is just Reiger springs and dampers...

'Just' doesn't quite to Reiger justice.
Don't forget Nelson also has full time access to Dirt Fish to work on set-up and make sure the suspension settings are optimized. That can't hurt either.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Quote
alkun
Jardevall will be debuting a well built volvo 940 turbo,

This I did not know, and this makes me extra sad I can't go.

---

"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"

Reiger is in 6K plus range.
I think he has the Alcon brake setup. Well, maybe, no pics on facebook of brakes, only one was from when being built and shows stock caliper in background. Regardless, $3-3.5k per end. Hintz' car does have that setup.
https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t1.0-9/221694_2040273495118_1960647_n.jpg
We're "working" on an slightly more affordable big brake setup for fronts. Like John always says, quantity, quantity, quantity. Decent quantity of hats and radial adapters to keep the price per kit in the 2-2.5k range requires five figure investments.

I can't believe the obvious answer hasn't been stated yet. Chevy LS big block and T56 with 2.88 final drive!

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Grant Hughes

Surely there's a nice lightweight Ferd V8 that bolts right up to that recommended T5?