Let's pretend I have a Volvo 242

I'm pretty sure neither Keith or myself give a crap about what cars you like or recommend. Unlike I've actually rallied them RWD cars and am still a RWD guy. I also can see there is a market for the new FWD stuff, maybe not for me, but a market none the less. I don't berate or judge those guys or that trend like you do. We be different people. Your behavior is the big issue for me. Sean nicely made mention of your failed attempt of an apology. You then start in about him not returning parts, shame. That is private shit between the two of you. You always tell these new kids to re-use crank bearings and just toss in a head gasket, now you're telling Dave he has to suddenly deck the block. You basically went quite overboard on Charles' dreams and desires in Matt's for sale thread, really none of your business. Shit happens, Charles didn't get divorced or have his business struggle over failing to heed your advice. Quite simply you're an asshole who can't either recognize your aberrant behavior or are so insecure you can't admit an error. Tain't humor.

I can't change you nor fix you but I have nop problem poking you once in a while when it's needed..whether it does any good or not. I do apologize for my part to the people who threads get ruined over stupid shit. It is either don't post on here at all or tug on your sleeve and tell you to not fart in church. I still have a roll in the rally community and stuff to offer, so get used to your sleeve being tugged. Asshole. I'm grinning right now btw.

Quote
Morison
Blah blah blah, snip!The point, which you seemed to miss, was that when you have parts, or raw materials, that cause you delays the fault lies in you not stocking these items, not in your supplier's failure to get them to you when you want/need them.

Oh thank you so much for your expertise, shit damn a road to Damascus Revelation!
Praise the lard.

I thought it was a supplier problem when I order 10 units , turns out they have 6......and ship 6.. Yep has to be my fault. Has to be, I just didn't see it cause I'm sure a huge asshole.

Now I know!

I still need 4 more units and they have none and will need even more soon, and I want some for inventory..

They take 3 weeks or 6 weeks, must be my fault..

I just don't know what to do when I keep cleaning off their shelves.....

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
Andrew_Frick
Since we are talking about power. Here is a Volvo option that fits John's criteria other than price. Ford has also just released a EC?U and wiring kit for it which takes all of the guess work out of the wiring. Should be good for a 100,000 miles.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=22999

tech notes
252 Horsepower @ 5,500 RPM
270 lb. ft. of torque @ 3,000 RPM
All-aluminum construction - about 55 pounds lighter than a comparable naturally aspirated V6 engine
9.3:1 compression ratio - Premium fuel recommended
Ti-VCT Strategy Employs twin independent variable camshaft timing for optimized fuel economy, performance and emissions
Borg-Warner Turbocharger with low-inertia rotor spins at speeds up to 195,000 rpm, producing up to 16 psi of boost
Optimized design ensures that maximum torque is achieved at very low engine revs
Peak torque available from 2,000 to 4,500 rpm
Direct-Injection high-pressure fuel system
Seven jets on each injector spray fuel directly into the combustion chamber
Engine design has been optimized for maximum operating efficiency, with a focus on minimizing friction and other parasitic losses
Low-friction coatings on the piston rings and highly polished surfaces on the tappets
Engine Kit Includes:
Starter
Alternator
Front accessory drive and belt
Intercooler and air intake ducting
Air Cleaner Assembly
Manual Transmission flexplate/flywheel

ECU and wiring for custom installs.
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=22998

Since Andrew posted this...
Not to say that its still not an expensive option,but I was curious what the REAL price of the engine and harness linked above actually was..not the silly MSRP.

Got my answer today from Steve at Tasca Ford-where I buy my Ford parts:

"Hey Mike, I can do the engine for $5565.00 and the control pack for $1413.50 and if ordered together there would be no freight charge to any location in the lower 48. Both are in stock and ready to ship.
-Steve"

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That's actually not a bad price. Sube gets $1000ish for a new turbo in a box. So really that real world number is quite good for complete engine with accessories.

What kind of tranny options are there for that motor?

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"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"

Quote
mellow65
What kind of tranny options are there for that motor?

It's Duratec/MZR based so it APPEARS the ranger and NC Miata transmissions(as well as quad rods bellhousing) SHOULD work for RWD.

And the MTX75 SHOULD work- as well as (obviously) the Focus ST's Getrag Ford MMT-6 for FWD apps.

A quick internet search of "2.0 ecoboost swap" shows the beginnings of swaps into fox body stangs, NC miatas, Locosts etc. but cant find anyone that's bolted up the trans yet....

---

................................................. .....................

Support your Local North American Rally Forum!!

While they are still around-and get the hell off Farsebook!!

We still have Specialstage & RallyAnarchy.

Post up Here:

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Quote
RALLYRS

Quote
mellow65
What kind of tranny options are there for that motor?

It's Duratec/MZR based so it APPEARS the ranger and NC Miata transmissions(as well as quad rods bellhousing) SHOULD work for RWD.

And the MTX75 SHOULD work- as well as (obviously) the Focus ST's Getrag Ford MMT-6 for FWD apps.

A quick internet search of "2.0 ecoboost swap" shows the beginnings of swaps into fox body stangs, NC miatas, Locosts etc. but cant find anyone that's bolted up the trans yet....

That's what I'm finding too, but no one with an actual transmission hooked up yet.

I found a blog of someone putting one into a fox body mustang, but it seems the pan might be an issue because it was meant to be in the west east configuration. They are having a K member made for his car though to fit.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/features/web-originals/features-web-originals-project-ugly-horse-part-10

But on a positive note, I guess the 2.3 ecoboost is coming in the 2015 mustang, so there has to be some options with that coming.

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"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"

Quote
john vanlandingham

I thought it was a supplier problem when I order 10 units , turns out they have 6......and ship 6.. Yep has to be my fault. Has to be, I just didn't see it cause I'm sure a huge asshole.

I still need 4 more units and they have none and will need even more soon, and I want some for inventory..

Time to raise your prices...
Not sure if you've ever looked, but I have an alternatives exist but would be in the $4k range for a setup similar to your 40 mil stuff.

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Grant Hughes

Mike that is good information on the cost of that Ecoboost motor. That sounds like a pretty good deal for what you get. And with the exhaust manifold integrated into the head, that is once less thing to worry about on the turbo motor.

Quote
Andrew_Frick
Mike that is good information on the cost of that Ecoboost motor. That sounds like a pretty good deal for what you get. And with the exhaust manifold integrated into the head, that is once less thing to worry about on the turbo motor.

At same time its one huge thing to worry about: locked into one OEM turbocharger at unflexible price.

But hey its just money, and everybody is just rolling in spare $7000 for just a motor and ecu.
I've already order 4 at that price.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

$7K is a lot of money, but what would it take in cores, machining and parts to build a pump gas, OEM reliable 252bhp/270tq turbo 4...

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Quote
Morison
$7K is a lot of money, but what would it take in cores, machining and parts to build a pump gas, OEM reliable 252bhp/270tq turbo 4...

Wrong question...

What would it take for a 215-220 hp 235-245 ft/lb pump gas motor might be $6900 to $6950 cheaper for say Matt there in Calgary who got a nice simple car.. For him it'd take a Eek 4 ECU from any 88-89 T-bird. Done. they were 205 hp and 235 ft/lbs stock with a microscopic little IHI turbo..he has a nice5 T3...And thats stock cam

What the engine doesn't make, the final drive does...

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Fair enough, but if we assume people aren't going to replace perfectly good engines with a new crate motor, then we can start looking at real world comparisons.

How about Dave Clark 2.0 as an example.

What are the options:
- Pick up a known runner and install...
- as above but 'refresh' it first...
- Pick up a good 'core' and rebuild it from the ground up...
- open up the current engine and rebuild it...

Before looking at the cost of time, how much in parts and materials are we looking at?

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Quote
Morison
Fair enough, but if we assume people aren't going to replace perfectly good engines with a new crate motor, then we can start looking at real world comparisons.

How about Dave Clark 2.0 as an example.

What are the options:
- Pick up a known runner and install...
- as above but 'refresh' it first...
- Pick up a good 'core' and rebuild it from the ground up...
- open up the current engine and rebuild it...

Before looking at the cost of time, how much in parts and materials are we looking at?

Calgary pricing ASSUMING no bore at all or replacement of major parts with a block in really really good shape and just needs some TLC for knowledge that you did the work. (eg, NOTHING in the head...) this is what I spent on the 900 B202 block I just did this with:


Consumables: $175 (cleaners, degreasers, lapping compound etc)
Bearings Main&Rod&Thrust: $170
Rings: $50
Bolts Head&Exhaust: $40
Gaskets: $180
Seals: $60 ish
Plugs & Wires & Cap: $80
Flexhone for your engine: $75

Turbo:
Turbo Rebuild: $140
Turbo Turbine Housing (they are ALWAYS cracked): $150

Shipping: at least $150 or so

So around $1270 I figure I had 100 hours or so into the rebuild with NO headwork at all. Didn't need to deck, anything.

So, unless you have a saab block which are almost indestructable, you will have to pick and choose from the following depending. (and this is where the calgary part comes in... and these prices are OLD so they are likely way higher now. This was from our flathead we did 8 years ago)

Boring: $120 per hole (assume 4cyl AND if you can find someone in calgary willing to do it): $480
Pistons: $100 per hole: $400
Decking block: $200
Head Milling: $200
Valves exhaust: $280
Valves intake: $160


So if you had a more realistic rebuild with you supply 100% of the labour except the machine work.
$2990

I got quotes if I supplied all the parts that a full head rebuild (seat grinds, guides, etc) could total $1500 not including materials!

That motor is looking better and better lol.

And add camshaft, new alternator, new starter, new ECU and harness and any cost associated with core block and head if needed. Price gets closer AND someone else did the labor. Really not a bad deal at all.