Thomas Kimsey Thomas Kimsey Elite Moderator Location: Rochester, New Hampshire Join Date: 10/05/2013 Age: Settling Down Posts: 271 Rally Car: 1988 XRatty |
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Thomas Kimsey Thomas Kimsey Elite Moderator Location: Rochester, New Hampshire Join Date: 10/05/2013 Age: Settling Down Posts: 271 Rally Car: 1988 XRatty |
Haven't posted in a while. Its been a cold winter and working in a cramped mildly heated garage is not that appealing. Have been busy with rallycross events though.
Supra Diff since I havent posted a picture of it in yet. December Early January Stock powersteering line rusted threw and blew during this event. Decent time to upgrade the powersteering cooling anyway and get it out of harms way. There is almost never a moment in rallycross when the wheel isn't moving Then came the ice events in February. Course was very icey Took a look at the rear tires and it seems im missing most of the studs. Latest event Car hasn't had one mechanical DNF yet but there are some things that still need to get figured out and fixed. Photo credit for most pictures go to DaggerSlade media. Great guy who comes to pretty much every event to take photos. |
JonArmstrong Jon Armstrong Mod Moderator Location: Detroit Join Date: 03/25/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 49 Rally Car: Rallycross Civic |
For some reason, this is a very common misconception with coolant to oil heat exchangers. You may be able to argue that the stock oil cooler is not very effective, but it is a violation of the laws of thermodynamics to state that "it puts more heat in than it takes out". Heat ALWAYS flows from a warmer source to a cooler source. When the engine is warming up, the coolant will heat up much faster than the oil. So, in this case, the heat exchanger is flowing heat from the warm coolant to the cold oil. But, this is actually a good thing - you want the oil to warm up as fast as possible to maximize lubricity. Later on, once the engine is up to operating temp, and you have your right foot deeply planted on the floorboard, the oil temp will exceed the coolant temp. Now the hotter oil will ALWAYS flow heat to the cooler engine coolant. In other words, the stock heat exchanger will never "cause" your oil to get too hot. But, at some point in modifying the engine to put out monster power, you will exceed the heat flux capabilities of the stock heat exchanger, and will have to add an additional cooler. I would recommend putting an additional cooler inline, instead of removing the stock one, so that you retain the oil warmup feature. |
MarkHille Mark Hille Elite Moderator Location: The hills of CT Join Date: 10/04/2011 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 135 Rally Car: I have two crap boxes |
First I should say that I agree with the laws of thermodynamics. Maybe my statement was not as precise as you would have liked but I don't think it is wrong especially when put in context. This is a rally forum and I assumed we were talking about rally purposes. At full boost, high rpm, sustained driving the stock cooling system quickly becomes overwhelmed and the temp of the coolant rises to numbers you don't want them. At that point your oil is even hotter (partially because of the turbo oil returning to the block) and adding more heat to your already burdened system. Hence adding more heat than it takes out. You could leave it in and cool the oil somewhere else.....but when you remove it it leaves a perfect little place to put an oil temp valve. Then you plug your oil cooler too it and life is good. You might still be saying it is worth it to leave it in but that would also require leaving all of the unnecessary coolant lines that run to it. To each their own but I prefer not having unnecessary lines of anything, never mind coolant lines, running around the engine compartment. Less things to go wrong and ruin your fun time. And as far as heating up the oil quicker, I've personally never had to worry about my oil temp being too cold especially when you usually have a transit to get to the first stage. (the turbo does a pretty good job at heating up the oil) I'd take it out every time with out thinking twice and recommend everyone else rallying a merkur to do so also, but that is just me. |
Thomas Kimsey Thomas Kimsey Elite Moderator Location: Rochester, New Hampshire Join Date: 10/05/2013 Age: Settling Down Posts: 271 Rally Car: 1988 XRatty |
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john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Infallible Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Oh. Really? That is how people make errors. The bolded bit is only an assertion. It like all else is actually a case of "in actual practice a number of significant thing effects which warms sooner including but not limited to size of water rad, size of water rad fan, thermo fan swith on/off temp, thermostat temp, oil cooler thermo stat temp, oil cooler itself.blah blah blah" This is not for arguing---don't get butt-hurt.. What you are doing is what 90% do: take an idealized truth : water heats up faster than oil heats up...and applying it to a real world situation where there are heaps of variables....
Wrong you want it to heat up to minimize fuel puddling on cylinder walls and bore wash down, and consequent bore wear and oil dilution.
Once again in actual practice the little Modines are a pain in the ass... the water cooling sysytem has to shed addition heat. Also the execution is a pain--molded curvy hoses buried under the intake manifold, very annoying to get access to, very expensive. And in the specific case of Xratties with cast iron head and block the Modines literally fill up with crud..nasty horrible crud.. No reasons in practice , today, to retain something so marginally effective when there are simpler and better solutions... There is a big difference between "ideally" or "in a laboratory" and installed in reality and for our specific use. Nothing happens in isolation, reality counts, theory or isolated "facts" are the way we make mistakes which later can be annoying at best, costly at worse case. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2015 11:15AM by john vanlandingham. |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Infallible Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Beer for you Mark... just emphasizing a few things for the others... Context is everything. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Thomas Kimsey Thomas Kimsey Elite Moderator Location: Rochester, New Hampshire Join Date: 10/05/2013 Age: Settling Down Posts: 271 Rally Car: 1988 XRatty |
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Thomas Kimsey Thomas Kimsey Elite Moderator Location: Rochester, New Hampshire Join Date: 10/05/2013 Age: Settling Down Posts: 271 Rally Car: 1988 XRatty |
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john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Infallible Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Dude, heat is the best. KILL THE RUST BY ROASTING IT OFF, keep it clean by spraying GRAVEL on it... John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Thomas Kimsey Thomas Kimsey Elite Moderator Location: Rochester, New Hampshire Join Date: 10/05/2013 Age: Settling Down Posts: 271 Rally Car: 1988 XRatty |
So I should use reverse more? |
Paul Buck Paul Buck Elite Moderator Location: Portland, OR Join Date: 03/23/2015 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 156 Rally Car: Volvo 242 in progress |
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Thomas Kimsey Thomas Kimsey Elite Moderator Location: Rochester, New Hampshire Join Date: 10/05/2013 Age: Settling Down Posts: 271 Rally Car: 1988 XRatty |
Realize I should probably post an update so that people don't think this car is dead.
Finished off the 2015 Rallycross season with a overall win. Did the John Buffum Winter Challenge TSD in Vermont. Unfortunately it was the coldest night of the year, below -16F and windy. Even more unfortunately the heat quit working in the car and with no interior things get pretty chilly. I had enough hand warmers and sleeping bags to make it through the night without loosing an appendage but damn was it cold. Happy faces of everyone getting out of the cold and mobbing a McDonalds in the middle of the night. Now its time to get serious about getting the car log booked. Pulled the engine on saturday to clean up since the valve cover and front main is leaking. Also makes it easy to stitch weld the engine bay as well as to put the cage in. |
Thomas Kimsey Thomas Kimsey Elite Moderator Location: Rochester, New Hampshire Join Date: 10/05/2013 Age: Settling Down Posts: 271 Rally Car: 1988 XRatty |
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Thomas Kimsey Thomas Kimsey Elite Moderator Location: Rochester, New Hampshire Join Date: 10/05/2013 Age: Settling Down Posts: 271 Rally Car: 1988 XRatty |
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