Cage material

Weird, I guess onlinemetals.com has their weights wrong. OR it could be a different alloy of the steel. But I doubt that, probably their mistake.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Wow, that's allot of good info. Do they Require the X in the main hoop to be 1 3/4 as well and what about the top windshield bar? I would like to do a diagonal two piece bar like the Current WRC Focus.

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Boost early and Boost often

Don't model after the WRC cars. Those are weird configurations typically that are homologated and are basically as light and safe as possible. A home builder's execution of it isn't necessarily going to be any good or safe. Hence why they're don't give a bunch of random options. Build to FIA Article 253 based upon 2007 homologation for all cars, or buy an FIA homologated cage.

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Grant Hughes

Must be an error, a quick calc here concurs with Bob.

Regards,
Mark B.

Diagonals can be 1.5".095", mild steel, whether DOM or CDS, for all the rules. download:

http://www.fia.com/sport/Regulations/rallyregs.html ===>> Pick article 253 near the bottom
http://www.nasarallysport.com/rules.php ===>> Pick Appendix B

Regards,
Mark B.

Are you talking about a main hoop that splits into a Y? That is a homologated cage for that car only. Like Grant says: You can only buy a homologated cage kit specific for your make and model of car. Otherwise, you need to follow one of the 2 descriptions above, Or do CARS cage rules if you are north of the border; CARS cage rules are being upgraded (essentially moving to FIA Art 253, with the same size prescription for DOM as R-A) so wait a bit on them or do the FIA article 253.

Regards,
Mark B.

NoCoast Wrote:
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> Don't model after the WRC cars. Those are weird
> configurations typically that are homologated and
> are basically as light and safe as possible. ...

2nd that... With the budget that the WRC teams have... a WRC cage = P. Engineering degree and hours of stress calculations.

According to the rulebooks (atleast CARS), you don't have to follow the prescribed cage rules... but you have to provide proof that it can handle X load in X direction. Thats a lot of work... not 20 minutes and a calculator. Trust me.

I've got a friend who had a cage built wrong (he went away to SEMA, shop built a bunch of the cage without his approval)... his options now... cut it out, have an engineer sign off on it, or wait and see if CARS changes the rules to allow his roof-halo setup.

dtompsett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I've got a friend who had a cage built wrong (he
> went away to SEMA, shop built a bunch of the cage
> without his approval)... his options now... cut it
> out, have an engineer sign off on it, or wait and
> see if CARS changes the rules to allow his
> roof-halo setup.
>
That's one thing I am not wild about with modeling cages after FIA only: No halo bar designs. These have been proven for a long time to be QUITE stong; it's like having a main hoop config lying horizontal in the roof plane. You see 3500 lb NASCAR behemoths flipping over and over, on pavement, and no x-braces in the roof opening, just a single daigonal coming up on the passenger side. If we allowed these, then a lot more shops could transfer their experience into building cages in rally cars, and I bet that rally cages could be had more readiliy and at possibly lower cost.

Regards,
Mark B.

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't model after the WRC cars. Those are weird
> configurations typically that are homologated and
> are basically as light and safe as possible. A
> home builder's execution of it isn't necessarily
> going to be any good or safe. Hence why they're
> don't give a bunch of random options.


Not to sound cocky, or anything, but I fabricate for a living. Only thing is I build off road race trucks, So I am unfamiliar with "Rally spec" I don't intend on a Y in the main hoop, But I would like to do the upper window bar as so >-< with appropriate corresponding braces. Thanks for all the good replies. I have been looking at the Fia and Nasa rally sport rules, but it helps getting info from people who have dealt with their tech officials.

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Boost early and Boost often

Ratfink Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not to sound cocky, or anything, but I fabricate
> for a living. Only thing is I build off road race
> trucks, So I am unfamiliar with "Rally spec" I
> don't intend on a Y in the main hoop, But I would
> like to do the upper window bar as so >-<
> with appropriate corresponding braces. Thanks for
> all the good replies. I have been looking at the
> Fia and Nasa rally sport rules, but it helps
> getting info from people who have dealt with their
> tech officials.

I analyze non-cardiac surgical outcomes for a living. Boring for sure. But I've built a few cages and rally cars and helped with many others. I'm just trying to help you avoid a nightmare. If you don't explicitly see it in the rules as being allowed, then it is not. People have had to cut out brand new cages before because they did not meet the rules.

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Grant Hughes

> I analyze non-cardiac surgical outcomes for a
> living. Boring for sure. But I've built a few
> cages and rally cars and helped with many others.
> I'm just trying to help you avoid a nightmare. If
> you don't explicitly see it in the rules as being
> allowed, then it is not. People have had to cut
> out brand new cages before because they did not
> meet the rules.
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO


And that's why I'm asking, Thanks for sure.

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Boost early and Boost often

NoCoast Wrote:
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> Main hoop, front windshield legs, connection
> between them at the top of the windscreen, and one
> door bar are required to be in 1.75X.095
>
> All the rest can be 1.5X.095
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO

what is the quickest you can bend 1.75 x 0.95?
if you do a front halo the legs that go down
the a pillar need to be 1.75 to i guess.


i think i am getting a bender in1.75 and just doing
all tubes that are bent in 1.75, not messing with 1.5
die.

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__________________________

i'm in texas panahndle,
full of gas and oil wells
to slalom.

http://bcdracing.com//pics/rally/rally.html

rallysmurf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> what is the quickest you can bend 1.75 x 0.95?
> if you do a front halo the legs that go down
> the a pillar need to be 1.75 to i guess.
>
You won't get a logbook from anybody with a front halo, not allowed by any rally rules in NA.

Regards,
Mark B.
NASA Scrutineer

PS: If you read my comment on halo bars, I was complaining that this proven structure is apparently unknown in the larger world rally circles.

starion887 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rallysmurf Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > what is the quickest you can bend 1.75 x
> 0.95?
> > if you do a front halo the legs that go down
>
> > the a pillar need to be 1.75 to i guess.
> >
> You won't get a logbook from anybody with a front
> halo, not allowed by any rally rules in NA.
>
> Regards,
> Mark B.
> NASA Scrutineer
>
> PS: If you read my comment on halo bars, I was
> complaining that this proven structure is
> apparently unknown in the larger world rally
> circles.


yeah, thats why i put it in my description.
thats the way i would build it.

anyway so then no halo, i didn't know that.

si one tube lenght from main hoop @ the top corner
along roof and down a's to floor.

my question is. what is THE smallest 1.75 can bend
w/o a wrinkle. 5.5? looking to start my cage soon
and am collecting all info had.

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__________________________

i'm in texas panahndle,
full of gas and oil wells
to slalom.

http://bcdracing.com//pics/rally/rally.html