Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
Posted by Kurt Thiel
Nicolas La Branche Mod Moderator Location: Bromont, Québec Join Date: 04/09/2009 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6 Rally Car: Rabbit GTI 1984 |
Junior Moderator Join Date: 07/26/2014 Posts: 26 |
John Vanlandingham Professional Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Nicolas La Branche Mod Moderator Location: Bromont, Québec Join Date: 04/09/2009 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6 Rally Car: Rabbit GTI 1984 |
Hi,
It's from mk2 erea, it's a Goeorge Fisher part number: 020 409 122 VWM Clutch type. Saddly can't post the PDF doc from VW Motorsport, and It's no longer available from VW-Motorsport veb site??? If interested I can send a copy. 2,5 MO. Not Going to Defi Here some pics: 
By lapingti at 2011-02-11 
By lapingti at 2011-02-11 
By lapingti at 2011-02-11 
By lapingti at 2011-02-11 
By lapingti at 2011-02-11 
By lapingti at 2011-02-11 Rabbit GTI 84. Rally, GR2. Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2014 08:26AM by lapinGTI. |
Nicolas La Branche Mod Moderator Location: Bromont, Québec Join Date: 04/09/2009 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6 Rally Car: Rabbit GTI 1984 |
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Kevin Andrade Elite Moderator Location: Boston, MA Join Date: 07/15/2013 Posts: 55 Rally Car: VW Mk2 Golf for my rookie year in SCCA RallyX...MK2 GLI with 1.8T for my first event.. |
Brian Klausen Mod Moderator Location: Denmark Join Date: 03/21/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 388 Rally Car: VW Golf GTi 16V |
No sweat man - that's what we are here for  .
They are not "about the same" - they are THE same - that is the whole point... The FD only changes the speed at any given RPM, in any given gear.
Well yes - you'll get less multiplication of the power of the engine, at the wheels => less actual power at the wheels at any given RPM, in any given gear. That in turn equals less ability to accelerate. Obviously if you can use the actual top speed of the 3.67 - like ALL the time - then it is worth while. But if you only are to hit the limiter with the 3.94 every once in a while - let alone what that would be with the 3.67, then from a performance point of view, you would be worse off with the 3.67 vs. the 3.94.
Well - you can put 175/70-14 into the sheet. If you do, you will notice that the top speed at the limiter in each gear, does not change much from the 195/50-15 that is in the sheet. Secondly - it really depends on what you are going to do with the car, the level of tune of the engine, etc. The actual 3rd, 4th and 5th from MTS makes for a pretty decent half breed close ratio gearbox. No particular need to change them as such. So point of interest is more in the FD-area. Here you should go for the lowest FD (highest ratio/ie. number) that gives you a top speed that is still sufficient that you wont be bouncing off the limiter all the time. BUT! Do recall that cars lige the R5 and S2000's actually have FD's that give them a top speed of as little as ~100 mph. And we are talking cars with in excess of 250 bhp. Now, European rally roads may slightly less like a highway compared to yours, but having the engine at the rev limiter for a few hundred meters even every stage, may be worth it, given that every single one of ALL the other accelerations will be more efficient. We are lacking a few informations about state of tune/future plans, type of event, etc., to give any more sound advice. But if I were to guess, I would think that 6500 rpm is a reasonable red line. It's a 8V and you are in rallyX, thus probably not the hottest tune out there. Secondly a VERY low top speed could be usable with rallyX. May be something as low as 70 mph could be usable. "My" setup with the 3rd , 4th and 5th that I chose, but with the 3.64, would give you a top speed at around 108 mph with your tire. I think that is too much actually. It is in the area of what I have now with my 7500 rpm red line, and now that I have driven this transmission in anger a few times, I would trade the slightly lower top speed for better acceleration. Guessing from what I read here and elsewhere, it could be pretty good for an 8V on North American rally stages though. 3.97 yields around 100 mph which is still far from 70 mph. 4.25 which is also a stock part, gives you a 92 mph top speed. After that, you are in motorsports territory, and prices start to increase. My old 4.64 gives 85 mph - but the price of the 4.64 is much different. An alternative could be different 3rd, 4th and 5th - there alternatives that gives lower top speed AND smaller gaps in rpm at the same time. But the availability of the FD shouldn't worry you too much, if you are going to order the 3rd., 4th and 5th from MTS anyway. They can set you up with just about any FD you like at the same time. Brgrds Brian 
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Kevin Andrade Elite Moderator Location: Boston, MA Join Date: 07/15/2013 Posts: 55 Rally Car: VW Mk2 Golf for my rookie year in SCCA RallyX...MK2 GLI with 1.8T for my first event.. |
John Vanlandingham Professional Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Brian Klausen Mod Moderator Location: Denmark Join Date: 03/21/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 388 Rally Car: VW Golf GTi 16V |
Not to sound like an ass - but was there a question in there?
Well - except for the language one? And for the record, I don't know of a Danish equivalent of "ax" - an certainly not of an English .
I can give a slight update on the transmisson though. I have just returned from our national championship finals, and for the first time ever, I actually had a use for the top speed. We hit the limiter (7500-7600 rpm) quite a few times in 5th this weekend, and it equates to 175-176 kph. (not mph). I think I may have bent a shift fork, since shifting has become a bit clunky, and got worse over the weekend. My 1 year old modified shift linkage may be putting a fair amount of pressure on the internals, when doing those downshifts from 5th to 2nd, coming down to a chicane from +100 mph. So, since the season is over for us anyway, I am opening the tranny over winter, fitting new synchros once in there, and checking forks and sleeves. I am still contemplating whether to change my 3.9-something FD for a 4.25 when overhauling the internals, because even though we hit the limiter a few times this weekend, I still think that the better "ax" from the 4.25 is more beneficial overall. Brgrds Brian Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2015 05:44AM by wildert. |
Steve Wheeler Ultra Moderator Location: Fork Lake, Alberta Join Date: 06/09/2015 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 336 Rally Car: 1992 Golf |
If you know of anyone with a 16V 020 4.20 FD let me know, I'm of the same mind, quick is better than fast. Did the math, 10 miles of straight away at 120 is 5 mins, at 105 its 5 mins 40s, when you get more pluck out of every corner I doubt those 40s would ever matter, nor would you likely see 10miles of top speed anyways. Power means nothing if you cannot control it! |
Brian Klausen Mod Moderator Location: Denmark Join Date: 03/21/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 388 Rally Car: VW Golf GTi 16V |
Isn't the 4.20 a VWMS-item? Those are kinda rare .
I use a 8V pinion shaft as it is now anyway, so I can go for the stock 4.25 that was available in some diesels. Not overly common, but not that hard to get. Brgrds Brian
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Steve Wheeler Ultra Moderator Location: Fork Lake, Alberta Join Date: 06/09/2015 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 336 Rally Car: 1992 Golf |
My issue is that I have a 1.43 VWMS 4th gear with the larger 16V splines on the pinion shaft. So I would have to get an 8V 1.43 from MTS and then I could use my 8V 3.94 gearing which is what I'd prefer over 4.20, but VWMS never made a 16V 3.94 R&P. Otherwise it may come to combining my 8V 4ths centre with the VWMS 16V outer, it would be simple if the stock gears weren't hollowed out since the Gemini stuff is uniform thickness. Power means nothing if you cannot control it! |
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