AWD and LSD or spools - discuss !

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john vanlandingham
Yep, never once heard a 2wd guy whining about what he should do for controlling his center diff and the diff for the other end than the one that drives the car..
Pretty obvious to me why they don't.

Sigh.

My point was that it only takes one diff in a car before people start the eternal debate of 'torsen, clutch, weld, open... oh what to do.' There ain't no 'just buy one diff and then get in sit down shut up and go...' without at some level of debate and discussion - ever.

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First Rally: 2001
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Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
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Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

True. I tried open, welded, clutched and then Detroit locker (on advise of Nismo) . Locker hands down the best there is for RWD.

Quote
Morison

Quote
john vanlandingham
Yep, never once heard a 2wd guy whining about what he should do for controlling his center diff and the diff for the other end than the one that drives the car..
Pretty obvious to me why they don't.

Sigh.

My point was that it only takes one diff in a car before people start the eternal debate of 'torsen, clutch, weld, open... oh what to do.' There ain't no 'just buy one diff and then get in sit down shut up and go...' without at some level of debate and discussion - ever.

What ever blah blah.
Its only a debate for those that don't know and listen to others who don't know...
Those aren't "car people" they're fan-boyz. What I call "consumeroids" The "debate" occurs among boys who aren't even 1/4 serious...

Otherwise there is no debate..


Again, like so much, just depends on who you hang with, what level of understanding they have.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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Ive ran spool,torsion and locker in my oval car. Locker by far the most consitant time after time. You think a locker in the rear would work well in rally awd?

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
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Diff smiff.... you just need this. 4wd will save rally...

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Morison

Quote
john vanlandingham
And instead if they just got in buckled up, shut up and gassed it like hell

Something that could apply to 95% of the field, of not 100%. It ain't a Subaru thing by any stretch.

I heard about the drop gear thing from a couple of good sources. I won't say who, just to piss John off. I know we got checked for it in the mid 2000s.

Why would they check for that? Diffs were free in PGT class.

Quote
heymagic
True. I tried open, welded, clutched and then Detroit locker (on advise of Nismo) . Locker hands down the best there is for RWD.

Really? I would not have expected that. How did it act?

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Lockers...I used to get some support from Nismo in the old days. One of them suggested the locker. A little research in a few racing and off road rags set the hook. Welded or tight 'posi' has some bad features. They greatly inhibit a car turning in and tend to push like hell on exit. They also tend to make the back of a car jig around more on uneven surfaces such as ruts.

Detroit locker I went. Fist time on gravel (practice) it bit so quick I drove the car into the inside ditch. A locker under decel allows the car to easily turn in and you simply work the throttle a bit to keep the arc you want. Amazing once you get used to it (doesn't take long) . Noisy as hell on tarmac . I think I had lockers in at least 3 cars of my own, and several of the other Nissan guys went to them. If building a car again I would go that route and none other. Probably not an option for Subes and Mitsus but I'd guess maybe for the Ford and Toy IRS and lots of live axles.

Seems like Malcolm Davies went to a solid center diff (eliminator kit)in his Talon(LSD rear) and didn't like it, went back to the vicious coupler.

The Chevy tech school used to have a vicious coupler out of an AWD supercharged Blazer. They pulled the rear driveline I believe , not sure why, and went to do burnouts. Factory guys have all the fun...anyhow they lit it off and proceeded to so over heat the coupler that the outside shell split all the way around . Made it a good tool for the classroom....

What's a Detroit locker?

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Grant Hughes

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Doivi Clarkinen
Why would they check for that? Diffs were free in PGT class.

Diffs were free but final drives and/or drop gears weren't.

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First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Quote
heymagic
Welded or tight 'posi' has some bad features. They greatly inhibit a car turning in and tend to push like hell on exit. They also tend to make the back of a car jig around more on uneven surfaces such as ruts.

(BufordTJustice) You don't say. (/BufordTJustice)

That's exactly the handling problems I've been dealing with. I know it's the diff but if I set it up more loose then there's less grip. Color me sold.

Eaton makes a locker for the 8" Ford, which is the rearend I'll probably go with since they are useless to the hotrodders and a 9" would be overkill and a Toyota would be too much screwing around and I'm putting a Ford trans in anyway so the driveshaft will be easier to deal with.

(Lockers don't have gears, they have overrunning dog clutches. They act like a spool but allow one side to rotate faster than the diff carrier, so it kind of turns into a one wheel drive spool)

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2014 12:00PM by Pete.

Quote
NoCoast
What's a Detroit locker?

its like a regular diff, just in foreclosure.

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
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Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

The way I think it works. Imagine 2 rachet wrenches one on each wheel. Both are set in faward so when you hit the gas you drive faward. If a tire drags or slips the rachet on that tire is able to go in reverse. Kind of like when you titan a bolt you freely back up but still have grip forward. Not sure if that makes sense but it does in my head! They do make lots of clicking noises on pavement while turning. Just like a big rachet does.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
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Quote
Reamer
Kind of like when you titan a bolt...

srsly

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First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

However I don't think a locker works when one axle breaks, I've never broken an axle in a live diff though. They are brutish on tarmac, noisy and jerky, but so very incredible on gravel and dirt.